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GB9 Leagues |
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Doug9ball
PRO9 SPONSOR
Joined: 19-Mar-2009
Posts: 60
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Posted: 2010-04-06 12:16
How is the leagues is lewisham going, any news
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Paddymoffet
Home away from home
Joined: 06-Dec-2009
Posts: 163
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Posted: 2010-04-06 20:33
On 2010-04-05 23:48 , BFrench501 Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! Tony, cheers for clearing up why some repeat fixtures occur. Understand the points you've made and can't really offer better.
If I was to offer one suggestion, it wouldn't be because the current systems trash (on the contrary I like the fact players can join late). But maybe a 'swiss' system could be put in place, where winners can only play another winner the following week, drawers play drawers and losers play losers. With the stipulation that you cannot play the same player more than once.
I suppose if there is one flaw with this, it is that the system works best with even numbers, else a player could get a bye where one isn't given to everybody else.
I do think the whole league works best on an individual basis and not as teams. As 9-ball is a growing sport I think if people play individually it gives them more chance to catch up.
Apologies if any previous post sounded negative, because my feelings are quite the opposite. I look forward to my Monday night out, 17 racks of pool against a good bunch of people and it is organised as well as it could be!
Baz Like the thinking there, however a draw is not possible in the current format....are you thinking of changing the number of frames we play??? Another suggestion would be to make every frame played = 1 point, this way even the late players coming could make a little bit of ground if they play well....also it gives the winner of any match another chance to accumilate additional points in the same way a loser can..... Apprecaite the guys starting at the start of the league should have the advantage of over any late entries in total games possible to play etc, however if the rule of 1 point per frame is brought in this may encourage more late enteries or extra players as they may feel they have a chance to climb the national league.....etc.....as well as adding oppourtunities to the currect set of players... i know this has popped up before in this thread previously, and we are waiting for the initial 12 weeks to be completed before any feedback given or changes could be made.....but some interesting ideas here
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BFrench501
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Mar-2010
Posts: 1598
From: Leicester
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Posted: 2010-04-07 15:16
On 2010-04-06 20:33 , Paddymoffet Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! Like the thinking there, however a draw is not possible in the current format....are you thinking of changing the number of frames we play???
Another suggestion would be to make every frame played = 1 point, this way even the late players coming could make a little bit of ground if they play well....also it gives the winner of any match another chance to accumilate additional points in the same way a loser can.....
Apprecaite the guys starting at the start of the league should have the advantage of over any late entries in total games possible to play etc, however if the rule of 1 point per frame is brought in this may encourage more late enteries or extra players as they may feel they have a chance to climb the national league.....etc.....as well as adding oppourtunities to the currect set of players...
i know this has popped up before in this thread previously, and we are waiting for the initial 12 weeks to be completed before any feedback given or changes could be made.....but some interesting ideas here Paddymoffet - I neglected to consider the fact a draw isn't an option at present.  But yes, I think the format should include the facility for a draw, and increase racks played to 18 instead of 17. Introducing a gives the losing player a chance to keep fighting for a point. And even if they lose, they won't find themselves miles behind at the start of the season. I'm not so sure that I like the idea of each frame being played as a point each. I prefer a more standard W=3pts D=1pt L=0pts format (sggested elsewhere). However, it is better than the current format where the winner isn't really rewarded too much. He/She's won the game 9-0 yet could still only win 9-8 and only get 2pts difference for winning. I totally understand the need of damage limitation to keep weaker players interested, but then again if we are to improve the standard of 9-ball pool in the UK I feel that maybe the format should be more aggressive and competitive than it currently is at present. I agree that encouraging late entries is good - more money in the pot, more money behind the bars and more players playing the game - looks good to potential sponsors if more people are active. I've got other ideas which I'll add to the bottom of this post as further food for thought as we are half way through the season. ********************************************** I think that the points system should be changed/trialled for next season. I feel that there should just be a standard format where you get 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw and 0 for losing. You then use frames won/lost as the tiebreak should anybody end up on equal points. However, if you win by a margin of 5-9 frames you get a bonus point, and if you win by a margin of 10+ (14-4/15-3/16-2/17-1/18-0) you get two bonus points. We'll assume a whitewash wouldn't happen, but maybe a cash incentive could be offered if this ever occured. Say £250 or something like that? And the player who gets the highest amount of bonus points gets a prize of £100. Another rule I'd like to see made compulsory for the league is that you must lag before the first rack to see who breaks first. So many people toss coins and I feel that such a crucial part of pool should be decided by skill (ball speed control) and not by luck. Would look forward to any feedback on these ideas
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OJD
Just can't stay away
Joined: 24-Dec-2009
Posts: 147
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Posted: 2010-04-07 16:06
I think large cash prizes for 17-0s may encourage some shenanigans between players...
I think a few ways of scoring could possibly be worked out and applied retrospectively to the results as a trial (i.e. we don't need to trial it "real-time" and potentially create a potential mess with an experiment) - whichever brings us to the "fairest" looking table may be the way forward.
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contrakid
Home away from home
Joined: 22-Oct-2006
Posts: 628
From: Bournemouth
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Posted: 2010-04-07 16:51
1 point per rack in my experience for singles leagues is best. Players that can't win a match can creep up the ranking by winning racks and it means every rack is important. For instants i was watching one game the other week and player 1 got to 9 and gave up more or less letting player 2 have the rest of the racks because he knew he had a win.! If this league is for the am player mainly then this gives them something to look forward to every week and really feel they have something to play for. I would also give a bonus 3 points for 9 or more racks plus point for every rack so you could have a 12-8 point win. ----------------- Money won is twice as sweet as money earned [ This message was edited by: contrakid on 2010-04-07 16:53 ]
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Paddymoffet
Home away from home
Joined: 06-Dec-2009
Posts: 163
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Posted: 2010-04-08 08:12
On 2010-04-07 15:16 , BFrench501 Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! On 2010-04-06 20:33 , Paddymoffet Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! Like the thinking there, however a draw is not possible in the current format....are you thinking of changing the number of frames we play???
Another suggestion would be to make every frame played = 1 point, this way even the late players coming could make a little bit of ground if they play well....also it gives the winner of any match another chance to accumilate additional points in the same way a loser can.....
Apprecaite the guys starting at the start of the league should have the advantage of over any late entries in total games possible to play etc, however if the rule of 1 point per frame is brought in this may encourage more late enteries or extra players as they may feel they have a chance to climb the national league.....etc.....as well as adding oppourtunities to the currect set of players...
i know this has popped up before in this thread previously, and we are waiting for the initial 12 weeks to be completed before any feedback given or changes could be made.....but some interesting ideas here
Paddymoffet - I neglected to consider the fact a draw isn't an option at present. But yes, I think the format should include the facility for a draw, and increase racks played to 18 instead of 17. Introducing a gives the losing player a chance to keep fighting for a point. And even if they lose, they won't find themselves miles behind at the start of the season.
I'm not so sure that I like the idea of each frame being played as a point each. I prefer a more standard W=3pts D=1pt L=0pts format (sggested elsewhere). However, it is better than the current format where the winner isn't really rewarded too much. He/She's won the game 9-0 yet could still only win 9-8 and only get 2pts difference for winning.
I totally understand the need of damage limitation to keep weaker players interested, but then again if we are to improve the standard of 9-ball pool in the UK I feel that maybe the format should be more aggressive and competitive than it currently is at present.
I agree that encouraging late entries is good - more money in the pot, more money behind the bars and more players playing the game - looks good to potential sponsors if more people are active.
I've got other ideas which I'll add to the bottom of this post as further food for thought as we are half way through the season.
**********************************************
I think that the points system should be changed/trialled for next season. I feel that there should just be a standard format where you get 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw and 0 for losing. You then use frames won/lost as the tiebreak should anybody end up on equal points.
However, if you win by a margin of 5-9 frames you get a bonus point, and if you win by a margin of 10+ (14-4/15-3/16-2/17-1/18-0) you get two bonus points.
We'll assume a whitewash wouldn't happen, but maybe a cash incentive could be offered if this ever occured. Say £250 or something like that? And the player who gets the highest amount of bonus points gets a prize of £100.
Another rule I'd like to see made compulsory for the league is that you must lag before the first rack to see who breaks first. So many people toss coins and I feel that such a crucial part of pool should be decided by skill (ball speed control) and not by luck.
Would look forward to any feedback on these ideas Hey all valid points here and good to see a different look on it, In reality if you did use the 3 for a win and 1 for a draw then you would have a big gap from top to bottom as the lower skilled players would still struggle to beat some of the top players in the club.......however if they did manage to have a good game and take 5 or 6 racks from a decent player then at least they would still get a reward of 5 or 6 points instead of a big fat 0 ....either way they are advantages and disadvantages..... I honestley feel the fairest way is to make every frame a point as that is way no one will give up till the end of the league...... As I have mentioned a few times I do feel the current system is a little one sided to the player who loses, e.g 9-2 down, they can still play on for an extra 6 points, however should the player already on the 9 win the next 6 they get nothing but frame difference...... I can see the logic in this but its inconsisten, the reason I have that opinion is that those extra points that can be gained by the lose could improve thier league standing but the winners placing cant be (only by frame difference) which as I said I feel is a little one sided. Hopefully more feedback will come and a few ideas can be kicked around.....im sure the GB9 lads apprecaite the feedback as its just really getting going..... Cheers P
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nick24
Just popping in
Joined: 14-Jan-2010
Posts: 9
From: London
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Posted: 2010-04-08 17:41
I haven't read all the posts so may have missed it. Just wondered when the gb9 league table will next be updated? Is it done monthly? Cheers.
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BigTone
Home away from home
Joined: 04-Dec-2006
Posts: 507
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Posted: 2010-04-08 18:54
well i was gonna do it today, however after ringing each club only to find out half the players havnt paid their subs, it hasnt got done.
Payment of subs is required for you to be included in the table. (therefore the money) so if you havnt got up to date by this coming Monday (which is when the next lot is due) you'll be excluded.
No grey area here. Im not chasing it. Your clubs will also be informed and offers/discounts etc will be revoked.
Tone
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Moo
Just popping in
Joined: 23-Mar-2007
Posts: 6
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Posted: 2010-04-08 21:51
i have a query about the prize structure tony, is it the case that only the top two from each division recieve a payout?
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BigTone
Home away from home
Joined: 04-Dec-2006
Posts: 507
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Posted: 2010-04-09 01:41
are you a member if so pm me with your name for a direct response. thank you [ This message was edited by: BigTone on 2010-04-09 01:57 ]
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BFrench501
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Mar-2010
Posts: 1598
From: Leicester
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Posted: 2010-04-10 09:12
On 2010-04-08 08:12 , Paddymoffet Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! In reality if you did use the 3 for a win and 1 for a draw then you would have a big gap from top to bottom as the lower skilled players would still struggle to beat some of the top players in the club.......however if they did manage to have a good game and take 5 or 6 racks from a decent player then at least they would still get a reward of 5 or 6 points instead of a big fat 0 ....either way they are advantages and disadvantages..... You are right P. I can't really disagree with you at all Just not sure that rewarding a player with 6 points for losing is the right way to go. I don't know which side of the fence I should sit on though. On one side, there is the argument that weaker players need motivation to keep playing, and the current system affords them that. But on the other side I see that we are lagging behind other countries in terms of the standard of 9ball in this country. Do you wish to have a system in place that caters for mediocrity or do you have a system that forces a weaker player to improve if they don't wish to finish bottom? I guess it's horses for courses, but as a player who possesses a competetive nature (but not the top level ability) I'd like to see more aggressive formats to motivate people to improve. I'm just not sure that the current format does this enough. For sure, you can fight for every frame AFTER you've lost, but isn't the idea to not lose in the first place? On 2010-04-08 08:12 , Paddymoffet Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! I can see the logic in this but its inconsistent, the reason I have that opinion is that those extra points that can be gained by the loss could improve thier league standing but the winners placing cant be (only by frame difference) which as I said I feel is a little one sided.
Hopefully more feedback will come and a few ideas can be kicked around.....im sure the GB9 lads apprecaite the feedback as its just really getting going..... It's definately inconsistent but for a first year I suppose its the best format to try, to see what player numbers are like at the end of the season. I'm glad we have this forum to feed ideas and feedback off each other, I hope it's appreciated too. I think it's going really well so far, and although my personal taste on format is different, I still enjoy what the GB9 league brings - a serious format plus bloody good discounts on tables and food/drink!!! Helps with all those cokes I buy the mrs for driving me everywhere!
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Paddymoffet
Home away from home
Joined: 06-Dec-2009
Posts: 163
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Posted: 2010-04-11 12:53
Agreed. Still teething i guess all feedback will be welcomed I feel.
Tone can u please advise the payout plan please.
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OJD
Just can't stay away
Joined: 24-Dec-2009
Posts: 147
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Posted: 2010-04-11 20:30
On 2010-04-08 18:54 , BigTone Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!!
Payment of subs is required for you to be included in the table. (therefore the money) so if you havnt got up to date by this coming Monday (which is when the next lot is due) you'll be excluded.
Tone
Tony, does this mean the leagues be updated on Monday?
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Moo
Just popping in
Joined: 23-Mar-2007
Posts: 6
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Posted: 2010-04-11 20:51
On 2010-04-09 01:41 , BigTone Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! are you a member if so pm me with your name for a direct response.
thank you Tony,i am a member who has paid all subs and still waiting for my direct response after pm and email to yourself! Just want to know how the prize structure works within a division? Anyone else know? Is it a secret??
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BigTone
Home away from home
Joined: 04-Dec-2006
Posts: 507
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Posted: 2010-04-12 00:56
On 2010-04-11 20:51 , Moo Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! On 2010-04-09 01:41 , BigTone Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! are you a member if so pm me with your name for a direct response.
thank you
Tony,i am a member who has paid all subs and still waiting for my direct response after pm and email to yourself! Just want to know how the prize structure works within a division? Anyone else know? Is it a secret?? Im sorry Moo but i took a weekend off from my unpaid position. I will however catch up with all the emails league tables and non payers later today. Tone
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Paddymoffet
Home away from home
Joined: 06-Dec-2009
Posts: 163
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Posted: 2010-04-15 21:02
On 2010-04-12 00:56 , BigTone Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! On 2010-04-11 20:51 , Moo Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! On 2010-04-09 01:41 , BigTone Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! are you a member if so pm me with your name for a direct response.
thank you
Tony,i am a member who has paid all subs and still waiting for my direct response after pm and email to yourself! Just want to know how the prize structure works within a division? Anyone else know? Is it a secret??
Im sorry Moo but i took a weekend off from my unpaid position. I will however catch up with all the emails league tables and non payers later today.
Tone Hey BT, Any joy on the above posts??
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BigTone
Home away from home
Joined: 04-Dec-2006
Posts: 507
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Posted: 2010-04-16 14:57
Hi Guys
just to let you know im working on the league table as we speak, there is still a few results to come in from the clubs but will update it without them.
As for prize money splits etc, the payout structure is on the website and has been from day one, with a payout between 1st and second in each division.
Thus giving everyone a 1 in 4 chance (app) of earning money.
If you have further specific questions please email me rather than on here.
Thanks
Tone
ps: the posts re structure etc were enlightning, i dont agree with all aspects of any of them, but this is not to say i didnt think some had good merit. I spoke with Bfrench in person about this, and im really happy that you guys are prepared to contribute. keep it coming, we'll be debating these issues in the last week of the league ready for the start of the second period.
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Paddymoffet
Home away from home
Joined: 06-Dec-2009
Posts: 163
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Posted: 2010-04-16 17:08
On 2010-04-16 14:57 , BigTone Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! Hi Guys
Thus giving everyone a 1 in 4 chance (app) of earning money. Hey BT thanks for getting back, can you clarify what the above means....sorry if im being daft.... when you say 1 in 4 does this mean that each division will only have 8 players??? Thanks Graham
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Warlord
Just popping in
Joined: 18-Apr-2010
Posts: 7
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Posted: 2010-04-18 21:14
Its nice to see that the league table has been updated then and that emails have been replied to.
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BFrench501
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Mar-2010
Posts: 1598
From: Leicester
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Posted: 2010-04-19 07:26
First post to the site, and it's loaded with sarcasm!
Until the tables are updated, just focus on your game and winning as many racks as you can.
Maybe if you feel so much about the issue, perhaps you could offer some help to Tony?
This is a new thing that's two months old, where there have been payment issues with players etc so there will always be teething problems. As eager as I am to check I have moved up from 16th, I understand Tony does this voluntarily and I think everyone should cut him some slack until this gets off the ground properly.
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