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Topic: John Higgins Scandal


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Author John Higgins Scandal

TheGhost
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Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 11


belgium    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-04 17:29

Quite simply: let Higgins take a polygraph, or he will NEVER be believed...
Doesnt count as proof in court, but as credibility boost it does HAVE sth...



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macshagger
Just can't stay away
Joined: 02-Sep-2006
Posts: 85


scotland    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 04:57

I say Higgins is innocent. Can't believe a word of anything that so called newspaper claims.



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Agentsoap
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Joined: 30-Nov-2009
Posts: 258
From: Upper England


barbados    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 08:15

Don't you think that it is more than just a coincidence that Higgins has just bought a £300k plot of land and has plans for a new £500k home to be built on it !...ummmmm?


-----------------
The Agent
[ This message was edited by: Agentsoap on 2010-05-05 16:00 ]



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OsamaBinPottin
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blank    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 08:34

Just a thought for people who say the video has been edited or whatever to make it look bad - neither Higgins nor Mooney are claiming any editing or other form of image management here. They have said they "went along with it" out of fear, i.e. even they don't question that they did agree to fix matches and that the video shows this; their defence is simply that they co-operated out of fear.



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MachineGun
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Joined: 21-Aug-2007
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uk    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 10:44

OBP I know they're not claiming the video has been edited but before I can form an opinion on these kinds of things I need the full picture that's all.



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BigDave
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Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Posts: 11008
From: England


europe    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 10:54

From what I've read it looks like Mooney is as guilty as sin, as the NOTW have said he was admitting that "bungs for frames" would definitely be possible in meetings he had with them in Scotland before even going to Kiev.

There's a chance I guess that Mooney didn't broach the subject with Higgins and it was all a surprise to John when it was mentioned in Kiev, and his story of just being uncomfortable and saying anything just to get out of there was exactly what he did?



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Ads
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Joined: 07-Sep-2007
Posts: 1894
From: Essex, England


uk30    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 11:00

On 2010-05-05 10:54 , BigDave Wrote:

!!! QUOTE !!!

From what I've read it looks like Mooney is as guilty as sin, as the NOTW have said he was admitting that "bungs for frames" would definitely be possible in meetings he had with them in Scotland before even going to Kiev.

There's a chance I guess that Mooney didn't broach the subject with Higgins and it was all a surprise to John when it was mentioned in Kiev, and his story of just being uncomfortable and saying anything just to get out of there was exactly what he did?


Unless the NOTW have any hard evidence of this they woudl find it very difficult to prove, as i said in an earlier post unless the NOTW recorded the initial meetings with mooney then these cannot be treated as fact and must be ignored.



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glossopscratcher
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Joined: 02-Sep-2006
Posts: 344
From: manchester


england    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 12:40

what i dont get tho is that higgins claims he went along with out of "fear"

yet it was him coming up with the ideas on how to get the money to him
i.e the mortgage in spain

pretty quick thinking when he was supposedly in "shock" and "fear"



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BPotter
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Joined: 24-Mar-2007
Posts: 370
From: London


uk28    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 14:43

I'm sure at least 95% of us would have done the same thing. It was only 4 frames a year on a meaningless tour and for 300k. Good payday for not doing very much. He got caught and now he will face the consequences but it was too much money to say no to.



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mal_clarke
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Joined: 16-Nov-2006
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neth_antilles    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 15:20

I am honest enough to admit I would be able to give pretty decent scenarios on how I could throw a match if someone asked how to do it. Does not mean I would do it though.

Don't forget it is one frame per match. He could chuck one frame and win 5-1. The other guy could legitimately win the frame withouth Higgins throwing it. Not defending him but just because he was talking about it does not mean he is guilty as charged.

He will probably be banned for a year for not reporting it to Barry Hearn but it is very difficult to categorically prove anything else as no money changed hands.

[ This message was edited by: mal_clarke on 2010-05-05 15:21 ]



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Ads
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Joined: 07-Sep-2007
Posts: 1894
From: Essex, England


uk30    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 15:35

On 2010-05-05 15:20 , mal_clarke Wrote:

!!! QUOTE !!!

I am honest enough to admit I would be able to give pretty decent scenarios on how I could throw a match if someone asked how to do it. Does not mean I would do it though.

Don't forget it is one frame per match. He could chuck one frame and win 5-1. The other guy could legitimately win the frame withouth Higgins throwing it. Not defending him but just because he was talking about it does not mean he is guilty as charged.

He will probably be banned for a year for not reporting it to Barry Hearn but it is very difficult to categorically prove anything else as no money changed hands.



I am glad somebody agrees with my opinion.

The only way that they could ban him for longer would be for bringing the game into disrepute



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sam_betfair
Just can't stay away
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 141
From: London / Herts / Wales / Manila


uk    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 16:08

ok, let me just add my point of view as someone who works in the sports betting industry. May I just add, i'm not speaking on behalf of any organisations(even though my alias suggests I work for Betfair), I just thought you guys will be interested on how a bookie, odds compiler might view this.

Lets imagine that the scam was real, lets imagine they were approach by the real mafia and not some NOTW sting.
In my opinion, Higgins and his manager would be lucky to rake in 50K.

First thing that needs to be established is that we are talking about frame betting, NOT match betting. Frame betting normally has very poor liquidity, even at Big events like the World Snooker Championships.
Second thing we need to consider, they talking about a low profile World Series event. This event is not even televised so betting for such a small event would be minimal. The bookie/odds compiler will only take on bets if he has the ability to build a book percentage and 'green' up. Surely alarm bells will ring if someone is trying to get lumpy on an underdog in frame betting. Also, the man power it will take to go around every bookies whether its brick and mortar or online will be too much. You also need to consider the Mafias cut of the money, how much would they need in order to give Higgins 300k, they would at least be trying to get 500k worth of bets on to make the operation worthwhile.

I can assure you they would have no chance online, every online bookie these days follow strict guidelines, following procedures to know each customers address, age, source of funds etc. The transparency is there for all governing bodies to see.
Thats while alarm bells were ringing when Burnett played Maguire one year, alledgedly, numerous new accounts were opened on the same day in the vicinity of the Glasgow area, all first time punters having the same bets on a snooker match......don't need Einstein to tell you whats happening there.

So Mooney and Higgins can't be the sharpest tools in the box if they think they can get 300k for just throwing 4 frames.
To get that sort of money, they need to at least throw matches at high profile events where theres maximum betting opportunities.



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chirst147
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Aug-2006
Posts: 630
From: Birmingham


uk30    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 16:43

On 2010-05-05 16:08 , sam_betfair Wrote:

!!! QUOTE !!!

ok, let me just add my point of view as someone who works in the sports betting industry. May I just add, i'm not speaking on behalf of any organisations(even though my alias suggests I work for Betfair), I just thought you guys will be interested on how a bookie, odds compiler might view this.

Lets imagine that the scam was real, lets imagine they were approach by the real mafia and not some NOTW sting.
In my opinion, Higgins and his manager would be lucky to rake in 50K.

First thing that needs to be established is that we are talking about frame betting, NOT match betting. Frame betting normally has very poor liquidity, even at Big events like the World Snooker Championships.
Second thing we need to consider, they talking about a low profile World Series event. This event is not even televised so betting for such a small event would be minimal. The bookie/odds compiler will only take on bets if he has the ability to build a book percentage and 'green' up. Surely alarm bells will ring if someone is trying to get lumpy on an underdog in frame betting. Also, the man power it will take to go around every bookies whether its brick and mortar or online will be too much. You also need to consider the Mafias cut of the money, how much would they need in order to give Higgins 300k, they would at least be trying to get 500k worth of bets on to make the operation worthwhile.

I can assure you they would have no chance online, every online bookie these days follow strict guidelines, following procedures to know each customers address, age, source of funds etc. The transparency is there for all governing bodies to see.
Thats while alarm bells were ringing when Burnett played Maguire one year, alledgedly, numerous new accounts were opened on the same day in the vicinity of the Glasgow area, all first time punters having the same bets on a snooker match......don't need Einstein to tell you whats happening there.

So Mooney and Higgins can't be the sharpest tools in the box if they think they can get 300k for just throwing 4 frames.
To get that sort of money, they need to at least throw matches at high profile events where theres maximum betting opportunities.


I totally agree. Having followed snooker and betting on snooker it's rare to be able to bet on a frame outcome unless it is a major championship such as World or Uk Champ. Therefore is 2nd tier World Series event which may only be televised on Eurosport be likely to have frame betting?

However, I would suggest that the way to maximise profit would be for a player to get to 50 or 60 ahead and miss. With a 60 point lead he'd be say 1.1 to 1.2 on an exchange. Therefore his oppontent would be around 4.0 to 5.0. So by getting a commanding lead and throwing the frame that way you could get better odds. I have done this a few times myself (bet on the outsider that is) and you can make a few quid providing you guess right. Although this way would be difficult to fix.


-----------------
Multiple winner of the Solihull Wednesday knockout competition.



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Doug
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Joined: 07-Dec-2006
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blank    avatar

posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 20:01

This is an interesting article by SPORTING INTELLIGENCE's Nick Harris.
************************************************************************
As serious doubts persist today over the professional future of the world’s No1 snooker player, John Higgins, sportingintelligence can reveal key details about the mechanics of the News of the World sting that led to the Scot being filmed in Ukraine last Friday apparently agreeing to accept bribes for losing a single frame at each of four unspecified future events.

On the one hand the details give an insight into the extraordinary planning and cost of a NotW investigation, this one led – as is so often the case – by its investigations officer, Mazher Mahmood.

On the other hand, scrutiny of the methods used by Mahmood, as well as close examination of the apparently damning NotW evidence against Higgins and his manager, Pat Mooney, will form part of an investigation into the affair, due to start on Tuesday.

That investigation will be undertaken by snooker’s governing body, the WPBSA, to ascertain how Higgins and Mooney found themselves in Ukraine talking about losing frames for cash. Higgins faces harsh punishment, including a long ban from snooker, unless he can adequately explain how he came to be talking about losing games.

The case will not be probed by the Gambling Commission or the police because the NotW has not alleged that any money has changed hands or that any matches or frames have been fixed. With no bets to look at, there is no suggestion of criminal wrong-doing in this case.

There are also grey areas about precisely how, when and where the NotW reporters wanted frames lost, and how much money they would pay, and when.

Barry Hearn, the WPBSA’s chairman, has said today that Mooney has “no future in snooker”. Arguably the most damning part of the case against Mooney and Higgins is they failed to report an approach from would-be fixers to Hearn as soon as they got back to Britain.

As Hearn said today: “One of the reasons I was so upset with the video evidence etcetera was I didn’t get a phone call. If someone approaches , and I can’t stop people outside approaching players, what I can say is it’s their responsibility to report that instance immediately so the authorities are aware and can act on them.”

The WPBSA investigation will be led by David Douglas, a former Metropolitan Police detective chief superintendent who joined the WPBSA board last month. He is expected to get full co-operation from the News of the World.

The NotW’s reporting on Sunday said the paper “sent an undercover reporter to meet after being tipped off by a sports insider worried that Mooney and Higgins could be involved in match-fixing”. There is no further information on the identity of the “insider” or their motives.

Mooney and Higgins have worked together since 2007 to establish new snooker events in “non-traditional” markets to help “grow the game” in an era when it has suffered badly from a lack of tournaments, sponsors and prize money in the wake of the withdrawal of tobacco advertising.

The events staged by the pair have been known as the World Snooker Series (WSS), and as the NoTW said on Sunday, the paper’s team “were posing as businessmen interested in organising a series of events linked to the World Snooker Series”.

Sportingintelligence can reveal Mahmood initially made contact with Mooney posing as a businessman called Marcus D’Souza, who claimed to be the ‘Senior Project Co-Ordinator’ for a fictional company, Alfa Equity.

Mooney was led to believe that Alfa Equity was a subsidiary firm of a real company, Alfa Bank, which is in fact the largest private commercial bank in Russia. Alfa Equity isn’t a subsidiary because it doesn’t exist.

The News of the World and / or Mahmood, created a website for this fake company, Alfa Equity, which is linked here.

The Alfa Equity home page boasts: “Founded in 1990, Alfa Equity is one of Russia’s largest privately owned financial-industrial conglomerates, with interests in oil and gas, mining, commercial and investment banking, asset management, insurance, retail trade, telecommunications, media, water supply and water disposal, as well as other industrial-trade and special-situation investments.”

All this is untrue, but was key to establishing Mooney’s trust in the operation. Also key to the sting was a fake news story on the Alfa website about Alfa buying a (fictional) Chinese clothing firm, a company later said to be seeking marketing opportunities via sporting events, like the WSS that Mooney and Higgins promote.

This untrue story about the Chinese firm was placed on the website next to other (true) stories about other firms, wholly unrelated to Alfa but linked via presentation to seem like they were associated.

Alfa’s HQ on the website is given as a real address in Moscow. Sportingintelligence has established the premises at the address given is a serviced office building, but as Alfa does not exist, it is not based there.

The website is bilingual, available in English or Russian. On another page, there is a Current Investment Projects portfolio. This features real projects and real companies, claiming Alfa invests or has invested in them. These firms’ real details have been used under false pretenses without the companies’ knowledge. Sportingintelligence knows some of these firms are investigating how and why their details have been used in this way. Alfa Equity does not invest in these firms because it doesn’t exist.

Another page on the website for the fake Alfa firm gives contact details for the (fake) Moscow HQ, as well as names and email addresses for a variety of contacts, including Marcus D’Souza, aka Mazher Mahmood, who used the email address marcus@alfa-equity.com for correspondence with Mooney.

‘Marcus D’Souza’ approached Mooney via email saying he worked for Alfa Equity, apparently a rich and successful firm with established links to companies including a (real) diamond exploration firm, (real) property developers and the (fake) Chinese clothing firm, and that Alfa wanted to get involved in organising a series of events linked to WSS.

On this basis Mooney met D’Souza / Mahmood in Edinburgh to talk about specifics. During around seven hours of a first meeting, details were discussed for snooker events (involving and backed by Alfa and related fake firms) in Kiev, Warsaw, Prague and Copenhagen.

Mooney and D’Souza / Mahmood had dinner, and alcohol was consumed until the early hours. A second Edinburgh meeting followed a similar pattern. The upshot was an agreement for Alfa to be involved in staging four events, with detailed agreement on fees due to Mooney for consulting, and appearance money for players.

Mooney is understood to have had formal agreements for these events drawn up with a London law firm. Provisional schedules even included details about the involvement of Eurosport as a proposed broadcaster.

D’Souza / Mahmood is understood to have agreed to all this, posing as the partner-elect in these future “exhibition” events. He used the fake ‘Marcus’ email address to send communication about event plans back and forward.

According to the NotW coverage, one of its reporters (Mahmood, though this is not stated) raised the issue of match-fixing at a meeting with Mooney, who discussed the subject in general terms. A reporter is later quoted as saying “It’s exhibition matches” that were being talked about.

There does not appear to be anything specific about what Higgins was required do in precise terms, ie where and when, or how he would be paid. The NotW’s coverage can be accessed in full on its wesbite (linked here), and it speaks for itself.

The point of this article is to place the case in some context, although sportingintelligence has limited access to full context. The WPBSA investigation should be able to access full records of all covertly taped and filmed meetings as well as be briefed on the NotW’s methods.

Higgins never met any the NotW sting team prior to Kiev last week. Initially, Mooney and Higgins were meant to visit Kiev in the week starting 11 May, to visit a proposed venue for one of Alfa’s proposed events. When Higgins lost in this year’s world championship earlier than expected, the Kiev trip was brought forward to last Thursday-Friday, 29-30 April.

Mooney and Higgins arrived on separate scheduled flights and were met by private cars on the tarmac off the plane and fast-tracked through customs. This gave the impression of local high-level backing for the proposed event. It must be assumed the NotW arranged this VIP treatment somehow for the purposes of its investigation.

Higgins and Mooney visit the proposed venue for the fictitious event the NoTW’s “businessmen” said they wanted to stage, met local players, and then discovered from D’Souza / Mahmood that another senior Alfa official they had been expecting to meet was unavoidably absent, apparently on business in China.

Instead they were introduced to another Alfa official (another undercover reporter), “Jaroslav” , and a man called Nikail.

At some stage on Thursday, the NotW team apparently made it clear to Mooney that they were not just businessmen wanting to stage events (as originally claimed) but were, or had links to, a shady gambling syndicate. The story in the NotW on Sunday does not make clear how this information was imparted, or when, but there is a section in the article that quotes a reporter saying (verbatim below, any lack of clarity is as in the original):

“And, as I say, the places these guys (the syndicate) are gambling. They’re not gambling BetFair, they’re not gambling in Ladbrokes, they’re gambling in places that you and I haven’t even heard of . . . it’s not about the love of snooker . . . they want to gamble and make a few quid.”

Nowhere does the News of the World claim Higgins had any prior knowledge of a deal to lose any frames prior to the fateful (filmed) meeting last Friday. In fact the first “spread” in the NotW’s Sunday coverage says: “The idea agreed earlier by Mooney was for Higgins to deliberately lose four frames. Now the player himself had to rubber-stamp the details…”

Mooney and Higgins are both expected to tell the WPBSA investigation that the first Higgins knew of any approach to lose any game was when Mooney told him about it on Friday just before the meeting.

Both men have already gone on record via statements (Higgins) and an interview widely quoted in today’s media (Mooney) that they had been “spooked” by the unexpected appearance of ‘Jaroslav’ and ‘Nikail’, and by the non-appearance of the Alfa executive who was supposedly in China.

Both Higgins and Mooney have said they agreed they would say whatever was necessary to “get out” of the meeting that followed.

It was taped. It lasted about 10 minutes. Edited sections are on the NotW website, and a still photograph from the footage showing Higgins shaking hands with a reporter was used in the paper.

The WPBSA’s investigation intends to find out what really happened, and why.
*******************************************************************

I think that one factor that has been understated and that the planned tournament were not even World Series events but 'exhibition matches' loosely linked to them. This takes them into a different context. It is common practice to manipulate matches to achieve a PR result. What purpose would it serve to have one of the games' top professionals to go to Kiev or Khazikstan and beat the local hero (or even Borat) without losing a frame. No, the local hero ends up losing a respectable 5-3 and suddenly the country really think they can compete at top level. Action material must be found to fill allocated TV spots. Way back when Maltese Joe, Andy Loppas and Roger Blank ruled the roost Pool was shown on Saturday afternoons on ITV's World of Sport.
At the final of one event a player raced into a 7-0 lead. This caused panic with the TV director and the tournament official who saw a two hour promotional opportunity looking like it was going to be all over in 40 minutes. So Player 1 'lost his touch' and Player 2 suddenly 'hit a bit of form' which enabled him to get back to 7-7. Then his opponent just managed to redeem himself to win 9-7.
At their next tournaments the pool players decided it would be a good idea to fix certain matches themselves and in the process they cleaned out the on site bookmaker.
My point being that it is almost always necessary to massage match results in promotional tournaments. Perhaps, Mr Mooney classified these events into that category. I always thought that the role of a manager was to steer his clients away from approaches like this, not encourage them to get involved.
John H may have a lifeline because he technically has committed no crime but I hope that this incident will be a timely reminder that we don't want to see our genuine competitive tournaments are not tainted by this practice



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Mikey_Freedom
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posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 22:32

nice find Doug, interesting article... here is the source if you want to see the links to the other sites mentioned etc...

http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2010/05/03/revealed-the-tale-behind-the-snooker-sting-that-leaves-higgins-in-the-fight-of-his-life-030501/



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Mikey_Freedom
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posticon   Posted: 2010-05-05 22:35




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SpongeBob
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posticon   Posted: 2010-05-06 00:04

If you watch the "edited" (please note edited) video again with the pre-conception that there was no scandal (pre-weekend). You could fully comprehend a video that showed M + H discussing a sponsorship/promotion event.... What we have to establish here is did M + H discuss money in the same conversation as saying "it's easy to lose a frame", "one mistake" etc. Because for me the clever editing gives the impression that they are.... but there are cuts there and you can see that on the video.



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posticon   Posted: 2010-05-09 07:23

More sensational allegations in the NOTW headlines, but this seems to be the standard with them, and it's clear that this, far from being a scoop, is just Higgins insuring his winnings so far in the tournament by "laying off" at last year's World Championships???

NOTW

http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/news/809149/How-John-Higgins-tried-to-bet-on-snooker-Championship.html
[ This message was edited by: Administrator on 2010-05-09 07:41 ]



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OsamaBinPottin
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posticon   Posted: 2010-05-09 07:45

On 2010-05-06 00:04 , SpongeBob Wrote:

!!! QUOTE !!!

If you watch the "edited" (please note edited) video again with the pre-conception that there was no scandal (pre-weekend). You could fully comprehend a video that showed M + H discussing a sponsorship/promotion event.... What we have to establish here is did M + H discuss money in the same conversation as saying "it's easy to lose a frame", "one mistake" etc. Because for me the clever editing gives the impression that they are.... but there are cuts there and you can see that on the video.


You could... but as has been noted already, neither Higgins nor Mooney have denied the content of the video or claimed it has been edited in any way. They simply said they went along with the deal (i.e. they admit they actually *agreed* to fix frames) out of fear. You can be sure that if the video was edited out of context that would be the first thing they'd be jumping on legally.

The new revelations... oh lawd... it seems Higgins (allegedly) tried to put £1000 at Ladbrokes on himself to lose last year's WC final when he was way ahead (anybody know what the odds on Murphy would have been at that point...?). They told him it wasn't allowed to bet on yourself during an event (shocking). More bad news, but in one respect he has one thing going for him - how unbelievably stupid would you have to be to put a bet on yourself to lose with your own account?? Such stupidity is redeeming in my opinion, it shows he's not an experienced gambling criminal. The £1000 figure is interesting, apparently that's the maximum before the bookies flag it as red, so maybe someone told him he could do that amount without any suspicion being raised?



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simmo77
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posticon   Posted: 2010-05-09 18:29

On 2010-05-09 07:45 , OsamaBinPottin Wrote:

!!! QUOTE !!!

On 2010-05-06 00:04 , SpongeBob Wrote:

!!! QUOTE !!!

If you watch the "edited" (please note edited) video again with the pre-conception that there was no scandal (pre-weekend). You could fully comprehend a video that showed M + H discussing a sponsorship/promotion event.... What we have to establish here is did M + H discuss money in the same conversation as saying "it's easy to lose a frame", "one mistake" etc. Because for me the clever editing gives the impression that they are.... but there are cuts there and you can see that on the video.


You could... but as has been noted already, neither Higgins nor Mooney have denied the content of the video or claimed it has been edited in any way. They simply said they went along with the deal (i.e. they admit they actually *agreed* to fix frames) out of fear. You can be sure that if the video was edited out of context that would be the first thing they'd be jumping on legally.

The new revelations... oh lawd... it seems Higgins (allegedly) tried to put £1000 at Ladbrokes on himself to lose last year's WC final when he was way ahead (anybody know what the odds on Murphy would have been at that point...?). They told him it wasn't allowed to bet on yourself during an event (shocking). More bad news, but in one respect he has one thing going for him - how unbelievably stupid would you have to be to put a bet on yourself to lose with your own account?? Such stupidity is redeeming in my opinion, it shows he's not an experienced gambling criminal. The £1000 figure is interesting, apparently that's the maximum before the bookies flag it as red, so maybe someone told him he could do that amount without any suspicion being raised?


Sorry but i don't believe he is that stupid!

He may of said it as a joke but there is no way he would of said that to a bookie seiously.



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