9-Ball
Topic: If Efren was British.............

There has been a lot of interesting debate lately about different pool tours. There has been comments on lack of pool tours, too much tours, lack of exposure etc etc. Some one even mentioned if a Brit would ever become World Champion............? That’s a very interesting question and made me wonder to myself if Efren was born and bred in the UK, would he have achieved half as much in pool?
We all know about his up-bringing, how his uncle owned a pool hall, how Filipino's have to play pool as a way to bring food to the table etc etc but no-one ever talks about his hunger, his desire, his love for the game. It’s hardly ever mentioned he honed his skills not just playing money games in the Philippines but a young Efren under the alias of Cesar Morales was a road player in the USA playing the likes of Hall, Mizerak, and McCready et al.

Do you think Efren played in tours similar to the likes of the BPPPA? Would he have bothered turning up on a Saturday and Sunday playing for 850 quid or do you think he maybe be locked in a money game with a Hall of Famer at 4 am in the morning? Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against tours such as the BPPPA or EPT or any tour for that matter; in fact I think it’s a good spring board for greater things.
DynamiteDaz hit the nail on the head earlier when he mentioned he will be spending more time abroad because he probably believes it will make him a better player playing money games against the best.
No disrespect to the rest of the Brits and I’m sure a lot of the top UK pool players have their on responsibilities and commitments like wife, kids, business etc but where in the UK are you going to have the chance to play for thousands of pounds night after night?

I know American pool is still relatively a new sport in this country but its no newer or older sport in countries like Germany and Taiwan and they have managed to produce World Champions like Souquet, Hohmann, Chao and Wu. Even Bustamante was seasoned in Germany. Bustamante in fact is a German citizen, fluent in the language and that’s where he got notorious playing big money games.

So in answer to my own question, if Efren was British, would he have become a legend of the game?..............the answer is YES because his heart and desire would have pursued different avenues of improving his God-given skill, not just playing in BPPPA events but hitting the road looking for the best and playing the best. Secondly, ‘Will a Brit ever become World Champion’? The answer is also YES, someone like Darren Appelton has shown us he is willing to experience different situations and seems to have the hunger. Yes he may have more to learn and maybe not have the same experience in American Pool as compared to Daryl but it looks like he is getting there and the stories I’ve had coming out of the Philippines are very positive.

Not here to shoot down anyone, just trying to start a healthy debate, trying to deflect negative issues into a positive attitude for British Pool.

I agree with you 100%, which is why I mentioned in one of my previous posts in the other thread about the BPPPA Prize Money, that I mentioned about there being a lack of road players in the UK

There is no reason why that guys couldn't travel all over the country, challenging each other to money games, the reason I say about this potion is because guys like Efren, Buste, Alex Pagulayan, then live and breathe on constant action, especially Alex who will take on litterally anyone without a second heartbeat, hence the reason why he's nicknamed, 'The Lion'

I think that in a general sense, it is a little bit tougher for british players to be able to go that extra bit of expence to travel the greater distances because the general living costs in the UK to get started, is actually quite expensive because of all the tax and sh*t that we gotta give to our fat cat gov't, but also because all the extra cash that is floating around the UK, in sponsorship oppertunites, are being given to a bunch of panzies, to chase after a f*cking ball for 90 minutes.

Yes there is definitely a good chance for there to be a seiries of good strong and competitive players in the UK, but untill there is that little bit more money available in the sport generally, it will take that little bit longer in time, but yes, it can be done without a doubt

Willie

Hustling to me is an art just as difficult as playing top class pool but cant see a cesar morales been done by a brit

We dont have a going on the road or big money hustling culture in this country

What we do have is a tournament playing culture, as jim wych commentated the brits have perfected the cueing action, and i honestly believe within the next 5 years the brits will be challenging the phillopinos and taiwanese as the dominant force in big ball pool..........hustling ? cant see it sorry

maybe a money match with riggers can start my hustling career

how many frames start will you give in 9ball race to 11 lee for £500?

On 2006-12-19 08:17 , poolknight Wrote:
Two to you pal, winner breaks.

and the seven?

Hello,
It's interesting that you mention Germany and Thorsten Hohmann in particular as he has never gambled on a pool game in his life (see his AZbilliards online chat transcript) and I think, although I'm not 100% sure, that Ralf Souquet has the same attitude in that respect. Perhaps the German military service and the mental and physical toughness that creates is what has helped them instead.
I know gambling's a controversial subject on any pool forum and I don't want to sidetrack the thread completely but I thought that as Thorsten had been used as an example that this should be mentioned.

Thanks,
Chris.

I also wanted to mention the part with Thorsten. Both him and the world's nr 1 for women, Jasmin Ouschan, proudly says that they have never gambled in their life, and that it is practise and a lot of tournament play that have made them good.

On 2006-12-19 08:49 , poolknight Wrote:
.... Err Nope! I think you'll find the game is called nine ball not seven ball so you'll have to pot the 9 like everyone else!

pmsl @ Riggers

Would this topic work the other way I wonder, If I was Filipino would I be a better player... Nice comments only please

No comment lol, just kidding Sparky

This is a very interesting question - Could you say what if Tiger Woods was British? Does the fact his dad was a sergant and he picked his first golf club up at 3 enter into it? Anyway here's my answer...


If Effren was British. He’d be the Steve Knight who made the made the most of his talent and went all the way to the top. Sadly Steve Knight didn’t quite make it but he’s still a bit of a UK ‘Hustler’ legend. There’s also the sniper – Tony Crosby who moved to the US to be a professional pool player over there and seems to do OK.

The fact is that the British don’t have big American pool gambling network. Firstly there’s so few top players in the UK there isn’t enough to go from place to place meeting ‘Mr big.’ Simply because they don’t exist. There’s probably 10 – 20 world class 9 ball players in the UK and half of them don’t gamble. Then there isn’t lots of venues to find the action.

I hear about more English 8-ball money games than anything. ‘After hours’ action in a pub / club - there’s no shortage of places and every pub in the country has a ‘champ’ or ‘chump’ to gamble against. Also you play strangers all the time. So ‘fancy a game for money’ comes about easier. (Boyzi, dynamite daz and the machine would know better than me)

I think there’s hardly any 9-ball gambling, in fact all the main gambling, money matches seem to happen at Hustlers central - Victoria Rileys. You can get a money game most nights of the week although maybe in the £100’s rather than £1,000’s.

So if Effren was British he would lack soul and character - that comes from putting serious money on your talent. But he could be waiting in the wings – fingers crossed

On 2006-12-19 12:12 , Riggers Wrote:

darn end of hustling career !

On 2006-12-19 23:09 , expertfluke Wrote:

expertfluke.................my post was not about gambling or playing money games, it was about identyfying what tools we need to make a British World Champion on a 9ft table........... I was looking for what mindset is needed in order to be world champion and what environment we need to create to order to produce a line of Great British 9 ball players.
You mentioned we have 10-20 World class players, i'll be curious to know as which 20 you would regard as World Class, I'm struggling to name 5. No disrespect to anyone but World Class is somebody who wins or constantly make the latter stages of major tournaments, we are talking about US opens, WPC's, BCA's etc real superstars of the Pool World like Reyes, Pagulayan, Archer, Strickland, Souquet.
We are not talking about English 8 Ball, Appleton, Hill, Melling are very much World Class in that game, no disbuting that, and I'm sure these guys have played for thousands of pounds night in night out. Also its easy for them to have regular money games because all the World class players can be found in this country, just pick up the phone and arrangements can be made in a couple of hours.

Also, this thing about serious gambling in Victoria is an old wives tale. Yes u might get the odd 200, 300 quid game but thats normally between very average players, who have money to throw away anyway but decent front seat viewing games is as rare as a dodo. Trust me, its one of my local clubs and I can't remember the last time when 2 top players battled it out in a money match. Good players jumping on weak rich Arabs who can't pot more than two balls in a row is not called a money game, its called stealing.

I remember I hosted Alex Pagulayan one year when he was in the UK for a poker tournament, myself and some of my Filipino friends took him to Victoria to play one of the top UK pool players whom I should not name. He had his backer, we had our backer. Alex was offering silly handicaps but the other guy would not play him for more than 100 quid.

Anyway, not trying to mug anyone off in public, just giving my insight..........

yeah ive played loads of english 8ball money games in past but when beat them all it eventually dries up....maybe i could have hustled more but thats more for none tournament players...

but my target is to play all around america,europe,philippines tournaments and money games...

and think ive said before that i will play anybody in uk at 9ball or 8ball in a head set 10 clear..

there was talk of tommy and raj but nothing happened !

also i dont think we have 10-20 world class players at american pool in uk we might have 10 at a push!

but think if things done properly anything can be acheived!

Daz any chance of you being really drunk and wearing a blindfold for us to have a game?


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for you my friend anything possible!!


legend ur

nice one i'll have the last erm 4 balls no 5 erm better play safe make that 9 LOL


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