9-Ball
Topic: World Championships need to change

As I have played 9-ball my whole life (and beat some of the best in match play here in the US) while watching the best players in the world on TVU I feel like an aspect of the game is missing but what is it?

We talk about seeding, longer races, winner breaks, loser breaks, round robin, dbl elimination but are we complaining or saying something else, all the while trying to figure out what is best for the game?

What is 9-Ball? I've always thought of it as an Aggressive, Fast Paced, Great Shot Making game with INCREDIBLE Cue Ball movement, SPIN and control.

What has happened.........its become TOO precise with minimal cue ball movement and its because the pockets are TOO SMALL FOR 9-BALL. When your out of line with extremely tight pockets you ""can't work the cue ball"". Also a casualty of this........you can't let your stroke out and catch another gear and RELAX and play better and better. The game now has slowed down WAY TOO MUCH.

I find it hard for me to enjoy 9-BALL as I think it should be played. The general public doesn't care if the pockets are extremely tight, they enjoy great shots, cue ball spin and ACTION. Its always the players wanting the conditions their way, the game itself of 9-ball needs the table set up for the 'sport' of 9-ball not precision BALL POCKETING, BORING.

The game that's before us....will not allow the 9-ball style of BUSTAMANTE TO BE SEEN
again, "AND THAT IS NOT GOOD FOR THE SPORT".

I posted this thread on the AZ forum, and there are allot of people taking this thread to mean large, sloppy, bucket size pockets but most of those posters have never played professionally or understand my real concern.

Like golf the cup size on the green is the same. 9-Ball is very similar, and when your in a tough spot you should be able to "consider" working your way out of it instead of laying up (playing safe).

Professional 9-ball needs to set a pocket size that allows players take the shot instead of constantly thinking about the saftey. In golf we all love it when the player opts for the risky shot and makes it, or doesn't, allot of times it can be the difference WIN/LOSE.

Island Drive

Ive got a feeling you wouldn't enjoy snooker Island Drive, lol!

Just what I was thinking cusack! It will be interesting to see what people make of this, especially the guys who just got back from Manila. I personally don't see how the pockets on a 9ball table could ever stop you playing that many shots. If you find the middle of the bag its gonna drop.

Interesting post Island drive - Did you see the WPC in Manilla?

Not many break and runs was there....balls were rattling in the pockets almost every game....Safety battles are dull? I have to disagree with you, although I'd love to see more Jump, swerve, doubles and combination shots played. But the great thing about 9-ball is the slightest mistake can cost you the game - so why make it easier?

I did watch allot of the venue in Manila. Me liking snooker, anything played at a high level I like. I was very amused at Steve Davis when he was index finger point counting each ball after the break, once he got to the 9th ball he pointed the 10th at his chair and sat down, I love that dry humor and found his mannerisms so enjoyable. Anyway back to the sport.

9-ball & golf are very similar. Do I lay up or take the shot, depending on the score I may take the shot. With the conditions I saw players tended to lay up (play safe) because when you were out of line the shot at hand became one dimensional.

I found this annoying because this game "is" great shotmaking and intimidating you opponent with your skill. Having the table be more the intimidator seems wrong.

Has the pocket size in the last 10 World Championships been the same? In the snooker world I think even I could guess "YES" without knowing anything about your sport, in 9-Ball do you think that is true, doubt it.

When players get to each different event and pocket sizes are different it hurts the sport. If you changed the cup size in golf, would it have an effect?

So in golf who determined the size of the cup? In snooker who came up with the standardized pocket size and cut? Was it the players, the manufacturers or the sport?

I think 9-ball at its best should expose the stroke and cue ball movement style too constantly develop ones swing. The more the swing is developed in 9-ball the greater the shots and the more we are entertained along with the crowd. When you can be agressive in this game you can intimidate your opponent.

9-ball is not a bump and roll game. The conditions I saw slowed play down, few players got relaxed while playing, few settled in and very few played better and better as play continued

i'm sorry mate but what the the devils playground r u talking about?

players not going for their shots?

i saw a load of shots that were basically do or die and contradict your post about players scared of takin on shots:here are 2 examples:

shot 1
efren reyes at 7 all with babica and possible elimination, reyes is faced with the 1ball at one diamond and 9ball the opposite end on the other diamond, what does the magician do "oh i'll play safe coz these are tight pockets" er no he banks the 1 and runs out for the match.

shot 2
souquet at 10 all in the semis. faced with a horrible looking 5ball, could have played safe coz of the tight pockets but no he takes it on makes the 5 and runs out for a place in the final.

both players could have been forgiven for ducking the shot but instead went for their shots because it was the right thing to do. the great players wont be affected by the size of pockets the correct shot is how u see the game as an individual not the size of the pockets

and another thing comparing pool to golf dont be silly,
tiger woods is the gratest golfer there is but how many risks or sloppy shots does he play?

tiger is awesome because he plays the right shot at that particular moment

Didn't think it would take too long for a response like that. I agree totally indiana.

Still no one has expressed their views as to why its accepatble to have a change in pocket size depending on location.
     Do they allow this in snooker, if they do then you have no argument from me. As for golf, I'm just stating that the cup size "is" standardized worldwide. Why is it wrong to question this for 9-ball?

I'm with you on this completely IslandDrive. The pocket sizes have completely changed the game. Now for 8 ball I do favour the tighter pockets because the game is all about precision and patterns but I agree that 9 ball is all about flare, fast pace and shot making. Some shots down the rail at speed are just too difficult on these tighter tables.

And before everyone shouts me down and laughs when I talk about pockets on an American pool table being tight I do have a background in snooker and english pool so know what tight pockets are all about but those games are entirely different and it's inappropriate to make comparisons IMO.

I agree with you IslandDrive. Nice post.

Your point about hitting a shot with speed down the rail is a huge aspect in 9-ball. Since there needs to be so much movement in order to go forward 3 rails back down table or draw to do the same, the conditions of the table should ALLOW this type of shot. When players start doing this in match play their feelings of confidence and their ability to get to the next level during a match are there. Once a player as I say "smooths out" and their speed control and swing rhythm are now in place the mental game is able to go up a notch. I don't like seeing great players like Busta or Ollie or Earl or Efren not able to get comfortable because they are unable to let their stroke become second nature.

I've lost the plot with this post...

If you can cue a ball properly, then pocket size is irrelevant. FACT.

Don't understand all this about mental game going up a notch with bigger bags, sounds like rubbish to me (no offence!), just trust your action and pot the balls!!

Agree that the bag size should be unified and that we should all play on tables with the same size bags, you'll struggle to find anyone with a brain who doesn't agree with that!! :o)-

On 2006-11-14 17:53 , TheSurgeon Wrote:


Are the bag openings and the contours of the pocket cut the same in all major Snooker events?

On 2006-11-14 18:15 , IslandDrive Wrote:

The challenge tour and main tour snooker all use Rileys Aristocrat tables. However I believe the qulaifiers and the challenge tour at Prestatyn have tighter pockets than the main tour tv tables. I have played at Prestatyn before and I can say the pockets are very tight and dont give as much as the tv tables. But generally the pocket size at snooker doesn't vary that much to be honest, the changes in pocket size dont make any difference to the playing of different shots in general.

I totally agree with you Mr Drive.

But no-one can argue against, that the pockets should be set and never changed.


-----------------

Are the bag openings and the contours of the pocket cut the same in all major Snooker events?

The challenge tour and main tour snooker all use Rileys Aristocrat tables. However I believe the qulaifiers and the challenge tour at Prestatyn have tighter pockets than the main tour tv tables. I have played at Prestatyn before and I can say the pockets are very tight and dont give as much as the tv tables.



"""But generally the pocket size at snooker doesn't vary that much to be honest, the changes in pocket size dont make any difference to the playing of different shots in general."""

I appreciate those details, I found your observations interesting about the tv tables being different. In the states here, if you ever watch the pro gals play the pockets are much larger than Manila. But since 9-ball and snooker are such different games pocket size when your hitting an object ball and traveling some 20 feet around table with force follow in 9-ball, the opening has everything to say about you trying to execute the shot or not.

I think the pocket size was perfect on the Brunswick Metro tournament edition table and this should be the set standard for all comps.

Gone are the days when you pot a ball by hitting two diamonds up from the pocket, you need to be more accurate in your shot making, not the mickey mouse way it used to be.

The problem lies with players practising on bucket bags in their local clubs and then having to face a tougher test using a Pro edition table.

I do agree that a standard size should be set and that size is 4.25" cut.

The US Open and the WPC has used this pocket cut size for the last couple of years FYI along with the IPT, so if these major events want to provide a tougher test for the best players then why should the change because some players cant handle it?

I haven't heard any complaints in the past and these same tables were used for the World Cup of Pool in Newport where the final was contested by Philipppines (Reyes & Bustamante) v USA (Morris & Strickland).

Golf courses are set up to be more challenging, you have easy courses and the Professional courses, it's pretty much the same in pool with tougher table conditions.

I think more important is the break, the games becoming 6 ball and there’s not the need to manoeuvre the cue ball as much because the table’s empty after the break. We need to move the placement of the rack so wing balls aren't guaranteed! Or go to 10 ball!

The pockets defo need to be standardised though.

Table 2 at Victoria’s been specc’d with tight pockets for those that need the practise

If everyone pockets the wing ball then whats the problem?

At the US Open they use the break box, the Euro Tour have changed to getting 3 balls past the head string after break, the WPC moved the 9 ball to the head spot in Cardiff.

All these changes have been taken on board by the players and they found another way round it to suit themselves.

It doesn't really matter what you try, the game of 9 ball is desgined to be quick with lots of break and run outs and thats why it's good for TV viewing.

The Floirda tour in the USA have changed to 10 ball and if thats what your looking for then start a differnt tour with new rules/game.

UK 8 ball pool (small table) is a complete shambles because everyone wants to invent their own rules and governing bodies, dont let that happen to this game.

Well said Holtzi! You coming to Malaga?