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touching ball rule in 9ball |
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SteveBurford
Quite a regular
Joined: 24-May-2007
Posts: 44
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Posted: 2007-06-30 14:26
Hello Guys.
I cant seem to get a difinitive answer from the rules of 9 ball.
What must a player do when the cue ball is touching the ball on.
if there is a resource or referreeing handbook you can get on 9 ball does anyone know where from?
Cheers.
sb..
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Riggers
Home away from home
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 4454
From: Barnsley (centre of the universe)
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Posted: 2007-06-30 14:30
You can't play away and be deemed to have hit the ball touching. If you are not on the ball touching of course you must play away to ensure it doesn't move and cause a foul. If however you are on that ball you must make it move without playing through the ball so much that it's is an obvious push.
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cusack_147
Home away from home
Joined: 17-Mar-2006
Posts: 991
From: Southport
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Posted: 2007-06-30 14:33
I seem to remember the american guy comentating on this years world 9 ball final saying that if a ball is touching you could just play straight through the ball if you wanted without it being considered to be a foul. This was much to the amazement of Steve Davis but i think they looked into it and he was right.
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SkyBlueJim
Home away from home
Joined: 16-Jan-2007
Posts: 328
From: Coventry
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Posted: 2007-06-30 15:02
I was under the impression if the cue ball was touching the ball "on" then you had to make the object ball move, but the cue had to be raised higher than 45 degrees for the shot not to be deemed a push shot
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SteveBurford
Quite a regular
Joined: 24-May-2007
Posts: 44
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Posted: 2007-06-30 15:12
yes i have heard the 45 degree bit too, does anyone know for sure.
sb..
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2007-06-30 16:48
The old chestnut of raising the cue 45º is an old wives tale and doesn't figure in the rules of the BCA/WPA.
In a touching ball situation, you can play through the ball with a normal shot providing that the ball touching the cue ball is teh ball that is on.
The object ball must move, I have spoken to many people over the years including the president of the WPA in an effort to get this rule changed.
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ine
Just can't stay away
Joined: 15-Jul-2006
Posts: 139
From: Stavanger, Norway
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Posted: 2007-06-30 17:53
Malaguista is correct, you have to move the object ball and you can shoot almost directly through it. The 45 degrees comes from another shot: when the object ball is close (closer than a balls width) to the cueball you have to raise the cue up so high the that the cueball catches the backspinn fast enough to prevent it moving more forward than half the objectball (at least this was the rule in the ec). I hope that made any sense  You can find the general rules, 9-ball rules (8-ball and straight pool) and referee rules here: http://epbf.com/organ/organisat.html----------------- Ine www.inehelvik.com
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2007-07-01 11:11
When shooting at an extreme angle you have to be careful that the ferrule doesn't touch the ball or it would be a foul.
You need to be a sharp eyed referee to spot it.
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SteveBurford
Quite a regular
Joined: 24-May-2007
Posts: 44
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Posted: 2007-07-02 04:57
Thanks Guys, Just to clarify further, if the ball is touching and in line with the pocket could you shoot through the ball to pot it, (provided you could avoid following it in) or is there any limits to how far you can push the tip of the cue ball through? (i understand there is limits when the ball is not touching, ie refs are told to call a push if the tip goes through the cueball a certain amount, does the ball touching get rid of the 'push shot' call and allow the striker to follow right through the ball if he wishes) cheers sb.. [ This message was edited by: SteveBurford on 2007-07-02 04:58 ]
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Riggers
Home away from home
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 4454
From: Barnsley (centre of the universe)
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Posted: 2007-07-02 08:28
I stand by my original answer above i.e. If you are on the ball touching you must make it move without playing through the ball so much that it's is an obvious push. This conclusion is reached when you read these 3 separate statements in the rules: !!! QUOTE !!! 3.18 FAILURE TO CONTACT OBJECT BALL
...Playing away from a touching ball does not constitute having hit that ball. !!! QUOTE !!! FOULS BY DOUBLE HITS
If the cue ball is touching the required object ball prior to the shot, the player may shoot
toward it, providing that any normal stroke is employed. and finally... !!! QUOTE !!! PUSH SHOT FOULS
It is a foul if the cue ball is pushed by the cue tip, with contact being maintained for more
than the momentary time commensurate with a stroked shot. (Such shots are usually
referred to as push shots.) [ This message was edited by: Riggers on 2007-07-02 08:30 ]
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ine
Just can't stay away
Joined: 15-Jul-2006
Posts: 139
From: Stavanger, Norway
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Posted: 2007-07-02 10:24
Riggers is offcourse completly right, but I think you need to try the shot to feel it. Believe me, you will feel a foul.
If you do move the cue a little to the side the shot becomes easier, you can almost play a normal followthrough. Just remeber that the objectball will change the direction sligthly (opposite of the cueball) when you "push it" with balls that close.
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Ine
www.inehelvik.com
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Riggers
Home away from home
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 4454
From: Barnsley (centre of the universe)
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Posted: 2007-07-02 12:05
The rule is open to interpretation somewhat but I believe it is fair if common sense is shown. The key is that the cue ball must remain in contact with the object ball only momentarily commensurate with a normal stroke (rather than a clear pushing of the balls).
In my opinion (so this isn't stated in the rules)... to achieve this you need to jack up to prevent the cue ball following through or play at sufficient angle for the cue ball and object ball to take a different direction the instant the call ball is struck.
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ine
Just can't stay away
Joined: 15-Jul-2006
Posts: 139
From: Stavanger, Norway
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Posted: 2007-07-02 12:52
This is stated in the rules: 3.23..."If the cue ball is touching the required object ball prior to the shot, the player may shoot toward it, providing that any normal stroke is employed..."
Remember that both players, or the referee, must agree that the balls are frozen or this doesnt apply. (see rule 2.20)
But again, you will feel a foul. When the balls are frozen the stroke feels clean, when it is a foul you can feel the double hit in the cue.
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Ine
www.inehelvik.com
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2007-07-02 14:49
This is one of the most controversial rules that in one part allows you to play a push shot and in another part it says that it is a foul.
I did my referee training some years ago with the BCA in the US and we were taught that if you have the cueball touching the object ball you can play straight at it with a normal shot.
As is allowed in the rules quoted above. the problem comes with the contradiction. I spoke a year ago with the president of the WPA and he agreed with me that the rule as it is written doesn't make a lot of sense.
Amendments to rules will be published later this year and will take effect from the 1st January 2008, let's hope that this is one of the rules to be changed.
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leanmachine
Just popping in
Joined: 12-Dec-2006
Posts: 11
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Posted: 2007-07-05 13:06
Wow, I've learned something for sure. I've always assumed the rule was as per snooker.
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