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who is the greatest cue sportsman of our time? and why? |
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dynamitedaz
Home away from home
Joined: 21-Mar-2006
Posts: 2200
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Posted: 2007-06-12 16:25
On 2007-06-12 15:30 , Huskler Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! On 2007-06-12 15:23 , dynamitedaz Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! snookers about cue action and potting balls!
pool is about everything
potting,vision,ability,skill,pressure,shot making,temprement,tactics,playing the right shot at right time,pulling the big shot out when needed, so many qaulities needed...
Erm... have you ever actually seen a game of snooker?
I can't believe that you think there is no...
vision
ability
skill
pressure
shot making
temprement
tactics
playing the right shot at right time
pulling the big shot out when needed
... in snooker. You've just undermined any validity in anything you might actually have been right on! cue action can means lots of things theres loads of great snookers player who are bad cueists to look at,selby,dott,etc etc but they deliver the cue in a straight line on delivery and thats the most importnat thing,thats where the hard work on practise table comes in and dedication and finding ways to improve it. its all about the delivery at snooker,long as its good from the pause thats all what matters everybody got diff styles! thats where u find your cueaction cueist is a stephen lee,ronnie o,williams,j trump etc all natueral cueists and havent changed anything from when they first picked up a cue yes the list u put hulkster you need bit of everything but in the main its how you deliver the cue coz most importnat is making the balls and playing safe thats the most important thing every frame of snooker is virtually the same reds 99% of time at bottom of table so every frame nearly as the same shape and pattern so u got to be a robot around black spot, as for vision at snooker it stares you in the face i dont play the game hardly but i know all the shots probably better than most of the players but i cant play them as good because i dont play the game! in pool every frame is different balls are always in diff places so more thinking and vision required more skill because need to do more with cue ball consistantly and got to have great safety mind ,and the skill of coming out of snookers and getting them back is just amazing!! easiest part about pool is potting balls rest of it is very diff and very skillfull cue ball control ,break,safety ,doubles,kick shots,push outs,so many great aspects in american pool and when got 100s of class players believe its a difficult to dominate so for reyes to win what his won really amazes me
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dynamitedaz
Home away from home
Joined: 21-Mar-2006
Posts: 2200
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Posted: 2007-06-12 16:26
plus in pool ur not guaranteed a shot.. snooker every frame u have your chance so to say pool is easier to dominate is just amazing statement
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thediamond
Home away from home
Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Posts: 1520
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Posted: 2007-06-12 16:28
Correct about one thing Dyno.....Machine being lazy.
Prolly in bed now........
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dazzler
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1289
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Posted: 2007-06-12 16:43
Well, here is my two penneth on this subject!...... There are so many factors to take into consideration here. Its like saying who is the greatest racket sportsman of all time!....so how do you compare tennis, squash, badminton etc etc.....so this is the problem we have here. A few have said that pool is easier than snooker!.....well this depends on which angle you are coming from. I mean how easy do you think it is to leave a ball safe in 9ball compared to snooker?.....much, much easier in snooker right? Ok we all know its easier to pot balls at pool, and the actual racks/frames are shorter, but the point i want to make is this....... Many of you have mainly played pool on tapped tables with big pockets etc....i have been playing pool for 12 years now, and i can tell you that if ANY of the snooker players played Reyes on a NON tapped table racking your own OR each others...THEY COULD PLAY ALL YEAR AND MORE AND THEY STILL WOULDNT BEAT HIM!!! Now, i have to say that i have seen Reyes beat White at snooker playing with his pool cue......ok it was only 5 frames, but they were playing for cash and he did win....and he did make 2 centuries and a couple of 90's! Now what i have said above is concerning 9ball....if you want to start talking about 8ball, straight pool, bank pool, one pocket, rotation, etc etc, well to be honest its a NO BRAINER! Also to add to the debate......English 8ball and snooker are mainly played by UK players....yes i know there are a few overseas players like Fu, Wattana, Thorburn, Robideax, Fransisco's, Ding, Hann, but there arent a lot thats for sure. Now compare this to Pool !!!.....Its a TRULEY WORLD WIDE SPORT......and REYES RULES IT!!! With my own eyes i have seen Reyes play shots in events where $200k is at stake, that made my eyes bleed with disbeleif!!!.....i wish i could describe some of them on here for you guys but its too hard to do on a forum! Heres another thing to think about too..... One of the other Philpino's (you all know who he is  ) has won the world Amateur snooker championships playing with his 14mil tipped pool cue......and he cant lace Reyes' boots!!! Nuff said! There is only one answer to this question.... EFREN REYES is undoubtedly the greatest cuesportsman that ever lived!!!! ----------------- 
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dazzler
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Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1289
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Posted: 2007-06-12 16:47
Oh....and also in snooker if you miss a pot your not always out of the frame....in pool YOU CANT MISS against top players or you will lose the rack.......pool is much more cut throat which in effect adds much more pressure. -----------------
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expertfluke
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 749
From: Hertfordshire
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Posted: 2007-06-12 17:20
Well put Dazzler - Very good point about snooker and small pool being very UK based. Reyes it is then followed a close second by Dennis Taylor.
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dynamitedaz
Home away from home
Joined: 21-Mar-2006
Posts: 2200
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Posted: 2007-06-12 17:43
well put daryl
prob u got with english pool is all the best or nearly all the best live in uk and we have the best comps etc but its prob bigger in south africa than uk.. australia play it alot.. france too.. most of others countries just part timers really! similar to snooker!
reyes is a freak of nature and we should appreciate him while his with us ,shame pools not a recognised sport like boxing,football,tennis,golf.because he would be up there with the greats etc
53 years old and still doing the biz enough said !
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thediamond
Home away from home
Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Posts: 1520
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Posted: 2007-06-12 17:58
Yeah, you can't argue with Efren's track record...its almost untouchable.
Me and Dynamite had this very conversation just before he left for the US last year. Even Dyno had his doubts about Efren being the greatest ever but seeing it for himself and being in the presence of the great man, how can you not be impressed.....and just check out how humble the guy is!!! You never see him carry on...most you will get is chalk roughly banged on the table.
When I first started playing, Steve Knight said to me there is no one like Efren in cue sports....thats all I needed to hear.
Efren is to pool what Ali was to Sport....the greatest.
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cusack_147
Home away from home
Joined: 17-Mar-2006
Posts: 991
From: Southport
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Posted: 2007-06-12 18:07
Wow where to start! Daz: Reyes has more ability in his left toe than Davis and hendry. Snooker requires no vision, ability, skill, pressure, shot making, temperament, tactics, playing right shot at right time, pulling out big shot when needed. All you need to be a success at snooker is to practise for hours on end. Crazy statement but fair enough - but why? You have to practise because the competition is harder and the game is a lot harder. Pool is very much the easier option as little practise is required to maintain a strong game. You say Reyes has earnt more money at pool than the snooker players yet he still plays money matches for $100. The day Hendry starts doing this is the day I show my a.r.s.e!! You show amazement at what Reyes has won, yet he has only ever won 1 World 9 ball championship!! There is only one person talking rubbish here and it aint me. Daryl: "if you miss at pool you lose the rack but miss at snooker and you still have a chance of winning" This is not a valid point for me and i think tis obvious why. In 9 ball there only 9 balls ever in the game, nothin is ever repostted like the colours in snooker. Obviously if you miss in pool you lose the rack because there are less balls, in snooker you wont always lose frame because there are so many more balls and it is much harder to dish. The tapped tables point - tapped tables are the world standard for american pool now and it would be like saying playing on billiard type snooker tables where the balls only just fit in the pocket and the cloths werent that reactive. Reyes could not beat any top snooker player on those tables. Also there are so many more tournamnets to play in and potentially win. In terms of titles Reyes hasnt actually won more than Hendry, yet he has had far more tournaments to take part in. It is hard to compare players from different disciplines: Reyes has dominted pool. Hendry has dominted snooker. So in my opinion the greatest player should be the one playing the most difficult discipline which is snooker. Ask Mark Gray which is harder to do: Run racks at 9 or 8 ball or make a 147 break at snooker. [ This message was edited by: cusack_147 on 2007-06-12 18:22 ]
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Huskler
Quite a regular
Joined: 21-May-2007
Posts: 43
From: London
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Posted: 2007-06-12 18:07
I bow at the altar of your experience... you have convinced me that Reyes is a very gifted individual. All we need to now is get him to the UK more often!
If the North Yorkshire Road Racing Supporters Club can get the top MotoGP stars to Northallerton (I used to live there and it's not much to shout about) then I'm sure someone here could get Reyes to an event in London.
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Huskler
Quite a regular
Joined: 21-May-2007
Posts: 43
From: London
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Posted: 2007-06-12 18:09
Maybe Pro9 could invite him due to him now being democratically voted to 'living god' status on this forum...
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dazzler
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1289
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Posted: 2007-06-12 18:23
On 2007-06-12 18:07 , cusack_147 Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! Wow where to start!
Daz:
Reyes has more ability in his left toe than Davis and hendry.
Snooker requires no vision, ability, skill, pressure, shot making, temperament, tactics, playing right shot at right time, pulling out big shot when needed.
All you need to be a success at snooker is to practise for hours on end. Crazy statement but fair enough - but why? You have to practise because the competition is harder and the game is a lot harder. Pool is very much the easier option as little practise is required to maintain a strong game.
You say Reyes has earnt more money at pool than the snooker players yet he still plays money matches for $100. The day Hendry starts doing this is the day I show my a.r.s.e!!
You show amazement at what Reyes has won, yet he has only ever won 1 World 9 ball championship!!
There is only one person talking rubbish here and it aint me.
Daryl:
"if you miss at pool you lose the rack but miss at snooker and you still have a chance of winning"
This is not a valid point for me and i think tis obvious why. In 9 ball there only 9 balls ever in the game, nothin is ever repostted like the colours in snooker. Obviously if you miss in pool you lose the rack because there are less balls, in snooker you wont always lose frame because there are so many more balls and it is much harder to dish.
The tapped tables point - tapped tables are the world standrad for american pool and now and it would be like saying playing on billiard type snooker tables where the balls only just fit in the pocket and thre cloths werent that reactive. Reyes could not beat any top snooker player on those tables.
Also there are so many more tournamnets to play in and potentially win. In terms of titles Reyes hasnt actually won more than Hendry, yet he has had far more tournaments to take part in.
It is hard to compare players from different disciplines: Reyes has dominted pool. Hendry has dominted snooker. So in my opinion the greatest player should be the one playing the most difficult discipline which is snooker. Ask Mark Gray which is harder to do: Run racks at 9 or 8 ball or make a 147 break at snooker. Now if you had read my post properly you would have seen that i had already stated that a "rack/frame" of 9ball is far shorter than that of snooker. If its world standardised rules for tables to be tapped then why was the recent world pool masters NON TAPPED.....it is WPA sanctioned? That is because it is NOT world standardised!! Many big events in the USA and Asia are NON tapped tables....its just Europe that seems to be obsessed with it! You also mention that if Hendry starts to play for £100's you show your *""*.......The point you are missing here is that Reyes is the most humble guy you could ever meet!.......did you know he gives a large percentage of his winnings to a large charity for the homeless in the philipines?........could you ever see Hendry buyin a drink never mind giving a % of his earnings away! And for the last time can i explain that 9ball pool is not so hard because of the potting side of things......its how hard it is to stop your opponent potting the balls! ----------------- [ This message was edited by: dazzler on 2007-06-12 18:28 ]
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cusack_147
Home away from home
Joined: 17-Mar-2006
Posts: 991
From: Southport
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Posted: 2007-06-12 18:35
If you read my post you would see that i said tapped tables are the world standard not standardised. What I meant is that most tournaments are being played on tapped tables now. Its great that reyes donates earnings to charity but if he has earnt so much then why does he need to play small money matches when he could just donate some of his personal fortune to charity. As for Hendry, whilst i was in Stirling for the BPPPA I had a meal with him and spent the day with him and he payed for everything including the meal and drinks. As for charity he also does a lot for charity and took part in two shows in Southport free of charge where the proceeds went to charities and children with cancer and cerebul palsy. [ This message was edited by: cusack_147 on 2007-06-12 18:37 ]
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dazzler
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1289
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Posted: 2007-06-12 18:56
I new you fancied him! I new thats why you picked him! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! -----------------
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cusack_147
Home away from home
Joined: 17-Mar-2006
Posts: 991
From: Southport
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Posted: 2007-06-12 19:00
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cusack_147
Home away from home
Joined: 17-Mar-2006
Posts: 991
From: Southport
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Posted: 2007-06-12 19:02
I wasn't really bothered about posting in this thread to be honest but when I read Dynamites comment about Reyes having more talent in his left toe than Hendry I just had to make a comment. Me fancying Hendry, your unwell Dazzler!! 
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dazzler
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1289
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Posted: 2007-06-12 19:13
No worries mate......i know im not well.....but that Boyzi is even more unwell than me!!!!! What dya reckon Dyno? Machine? Riggers? -----------------
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dynamitedaz
Home away from home
Joined: 21-Mar-2006
Posts: 2200
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Posted: 2007-06-12 19:24
reply cusack you not only talk rubbish at times but you twist things aswell i never once said snooker requires no vision,skill,pressure,tactics etc not once have i said that! but the main part of the game is potting fact! obviously u need alittle bit of everything because it comes up now and again in the game.. but in pool it comes up a the devils playground of alot more fact! ie less room to play for play in order of balls every rack of balls are different lay out!etc etc.. so i ask you WHY twist things i havent said???? again another twist from you i never said he makes more than snooker players i said hes made more or makes more than MOST snooker players FACT again why shouldnt he play for $100 whats wrong with that?? so when hendry practises against higgins,fu etc they dont play for anything? am sure theres a few a couple hundred on table.. reyes does it for match practise and because he loves the game and his the most down to earth guy you will meet plus american pool players mentality is completley different its full of amatuer players and they just want to say they have played him for small doe and efren been efren gives something back to the fans and ppl that want to learn of him.. where as snooker its very rare if ever a amatuer gets the chance to play hendry or any other top player in snooker tournaments only chance they get is exhibitions.as where pool 90% of events are filled with amatuers so the mentality is completley different! am amazed by efrens titles but only won 1 world 9ball title get a grip? so whats that meant to mean? 9balls a lucky game and it can go that way esp when playing mickey mouse format races to 9s 10s 11s if it was races to 21 am sure he would have 7-10 world titles to his name! ,what about the world 8ball titles his won and whatever other dicipline world titles his won his won everything in the game at all major titles and his the most successful pool player ever! , only person talking rubbish and its not you say? well it certainly isnt me ,maybe your twin brother is typing for you! not been big headed but when it comes to cuesports i know a million times more than you on knowledge of the games in cuesports and have seen and played most of the best players and i have loads of experience actually when it comes to cuesports lets just say i think am qualified enough to know what am talking about just my professional opinion! dyno [ This message was edited by: dynamitedaz on 2007-06-12 19:33 ]
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Pitster
Just can't stay away
Joined: 20-May-2006
Posts: 97
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Posted: 2007-06-12 19:39
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gaz1210
Official Pro9 Tipster!
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 119
From: North-East
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Posted: 2007-06-12 21:07
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