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9-Ball
Topic: World Championships need to change
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World Championships need to change |
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Riggers
Home away from home
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 4454
From: Barnsley (centre of the universe)
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Posted: 2006-11-15 12:50
I agree that 10 ball is a better game. I mean, what plank chose 9 balls anyhow? Didn't they notice that 10 balls fit neatly into a triangle? Or maybe they were playing in a club where 6 of the balls were missing? [ This message was edited by: Riggers on 2006-11-15 12:51 ]
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2006-11-15 12:58
!!! QUOTE !!! Well said Holtzi! You coming to Malaga?
Are you????
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IslandDrive
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Posts: 24
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Posted: 2006-11-15 15:38
On 2006-11-15 12:50 , Riggers Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! I agree that 10 ball is a better game. I mean, what plank chose 9 balls anyhow? Didn't they notice that 10 balls fit neatly into a triangle? Or maybe they were playing in a club where 6 of the balls were missing?
Riggers, that question of who chose racking 9 balls is a very good question, one can only speculate. My thought would be, it came out of the depression era in the states, when the gamblers were working it hard in those days. The triangular desigin (10-ball) is becoming the preferred platform for rotation play. What this 10-ball rack will stop is the soft hit controlled break, because there will be too many clusters. And if your opponent chooses to do a soft break when matching up, just tell him loser racks, and you can put the 2 ball in the rack interior. There is nothing quite like the loud crack of a rotation rack with the cue ball bouncing back and parking in the middle of the table, plus the noise of balls possibly entering the pockets at speed.
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IslandDrive
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Posts: 24
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Posted: 2006-12-02 12:50
I just found this tidbit from the Phillipines interesting, thought I'd share their thoughts on the game of 9-Ball. ""The United States is known for its power game; Europe is very technical; the Philippines predictably has a soft and graceful touch."" Power Game it is, and when I think of Ortmann, Power game is he, Bustamante too. Power is 9-ball/9-Ball is Power, and is the way its always been looked at and the way its always been played in the states. In the states we don't question how snooker is played or should be played, it is what it is. 9-Ball is and agressive, intimidating power game. When a great player starts pocketing balls from everywhere, crushing the rack, falling into stroke and getting there swing rhythm and speed to drop into place, many opponents can and will fold under these circumstances. 9-Ball is a game that should apply pressure to the opponent because of your skill not apply pressure to the player because of the table conditions. [ This message was edited by: IslandDrive on 2006-12-02 13:03 ]
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indiana
Home away from home
Joined: 08-May-2006
Posts: 645
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Posted: 2006-12-02 13:07
so tight pockets are the way forward then islandDrive?
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IslandDrive
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Posts: 24
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Posted: 2006-12-02 13:46
On 2006-12-02 13:07 , indiana Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! so tight pockets are the way forward then islandDrive? The below text was within my last post. 9-Ball is a game that should apply pressure to the opponent because of your skill not apply pressure to the player because of the table conditions.
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JonnyC
Home away from home
Joined: 03-Aug-2006
Posts: 225
From: Leeds
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Posted: 2006-12-02 17:56
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devil
Home away from home
Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Posts: 259
From: Hamilton, Scotland
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Posted: 2006-12-02 18:29
On 2006-12-02 13:46 , IslandDrive Wrote:9-Ball is a game that should apply pressure to the opponent because of your skill So we all agree now that a players skill for potting is correct and not the table conditions. Ah, good that you see sense now ID.  [ This message was edited by: devil on 2006-12-02 18:30 ]
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paddy147
Home away from home
Joined: 26-Mar-2006
Posts: 709
From: ireland
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Posted: 2006-12-02 22:28
island drive wrote
"""But generally the pocket size at snooker doesn't vary that much to be honest, the changes in pocket size dont make any difference to the playing of different shots in general."""
I agree with you that the snooker tables on tv are bigger than pontins but it made a big difference in holland for the world under 21s when the pockets where like manholes and usually a red behind the black spot was a tough shot. The players laughed at the conditions!!!
It was like playing snooker on a 9ball table!!!
so to be honest your comments arent accurate because in holland when the black was tight on the cushion behind the black spot u could smash the pack open with ease!!! I think there was a record number off centuries!!! mark allen beat the record of centuries!!! 14 i think!
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paddy147
Home away from home
Joined: 26-Mar-2006
Posts: 709
From: ireland
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Posted: 2006-12-02 22:30
but i agree the pockets should be all one size but its never going to happen!
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IslandDrive
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Posts: 24
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Posted: 2006-12-02 23:21
On 2006-12-02 22:28 , paddy147 Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! island drive wrote
"""But generally the pocket size at snooker doesn't vary that much to be honest, the changes in pocket size dont make any difference to the playing of different shots in general."""
Where did you dig up the above statement? Your point of view is now clear to me.
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TheWizard
Home away from home
Joined: 18-Mar-2006
Posts: 823
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Posted: 2006-12-03 03:07
ok it's time to sort this sh*te out once and for all Right then, I've been on the WPA website and here's their pockets specs for the tables in tournaments, e.g. wpc 9. Pocket Openings and Measurements Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 to maximum ¼ inch thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch . The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions. The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth. Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 and 4.625 inches
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 and 5.125 inches*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch wider than the mouth of the corner pocket. Basically what it is saying above, is that the pockets are generally 4 1/2" pockets and if that's the case, then they are not and I repeat, NOT tight pockets, if anything they are about the average pocket size if the pockets have double facings, then you're looking at about a about a 4 1/4" pockets, which still isn't really tight, but still enough to adjust your game to them a little As far as I understand it, it's like Pat has said, the pockets are just fine , I regularly play on GC4's that are from the 2003 WPC in Cardiff, the year I was there, and they are still to this day, have their double facings on them, as they were set for the tournament and yes, they still play receptively So basicaly, as fas as I'm concerned, the only thing that needs to change at the WPC for next year and every year after, if to ditch that stupid alternate breaks trash and put it back to winner breaks, the way it should be and have more prize money for the players to shoot for to increase the level of competition Willie [ This message was edited by: TheWizard on 2006-12-03 03:32 ]
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Riggers
Home away from home
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 4454
From: Barnsley (centre of the universe)
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Posted: 2006-12-04 08:28
I can't agree that 9 ball is about power. When you watch the very vest players (including US players) they finesss the ball around the table with no effort at all. To me that's what 9 ball is all about because of the potentially long distances from one ball to the next (unlike 8 ball) so the real art of the game is to effortlessly move the cue ball around without having to resort to power shots. [ This message was edited by: Riggers on 2006-12-04 08:29 ]
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IslandDrive
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Posts: 24
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Posted: 2006-12-04 15:33
On 2006-12-03 03:07 , TheWizard Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! ok it's time to sort this sh*te out once and for all
Right then, I've been on the WPA website and here's their pockets specs for the tables in tournaments, e.g. wpc
9. Pocket Openings and Measurements
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 to maximum ¼ inch thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch . The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.
The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.
Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 and 4.625 inches
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 and 5.125 inches
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.
Basically what it is saying above, is that the pockets are generally 4 1/2" pockets and if that's the case, then they are not and I repeat, NOT tight pockets, if anything they are about the average pocket size if the pockets have double facings, then you're looking at about a about a 4 1/4" pockets, which still isn't really tight, but still enough to adjust your game to them a little
As far as I understand it, it's like Pat has said, the pockets are just fine , I regularly play on GC4's that are from the 2003 WPC in Cardiff, the year I was there, and they are still to this day, have their double facings on them, as they were set for the tournament and yes, they still play receptively
So basicaly, as fas as I'm concerned, the only thing that needs to change at the WPC for next year and every year after, if to ditch that stupid alternate breaks trash and put it back to winner breaks, the way it should be and have more prize money for the players to shoot for to increase the level of competition
Willie During the event, it was said the pocket size was 1.8, that was confirmed by two balls would not fit in the pocket at the same time, so 4 1/2" pockets were not used.
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TheWizard
Home away from home
Joined: 18-Mar-2006
Posts: 823
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Posted: 2006-12-04 18:59
If the pockets size was 1.8" width, then nobody would be making a ball on those pockets because they would be smaller than the size of the balls themselves If 2 balls wouldn't fit in the pocket simultaniously, then it sounds more like they would be about 4" - 4 1/4" pockets , but either way, Riggers is right in what he has said, the main object in 9ball or pretty much any pool game, is to be able to work the snowball without having to use a power stroke, with the speeds of cloth nowadays, they don't need a power shot to get shape unless it's an odd beast of a shot I know what you'e saying overall, that a player should be able to play that shot freely without a smaller than average pocket being a serious pain in the twin air bags, but it is more of a case of perfecting your stroke or just tightening up your game to adapt to those conditions I will say this though... if and I mean, IF... The WPC tables or any Matchroom/WPA-sanctioned events are using tables, that are below the specifications requirements that are set by the BCA and enforced by the WPA, then I would like to ask what the heck are they doing using tables, that are not within the specifications, that they have been enforcing on manufacturers and/or tournaments, over the years? Willie
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IslandDrive
Not too shy to talk
Joined: 04-Nov-2006
Posts: 24
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Posted: 2006-12-04 22:20
On 2006-12-04 18:59 , TheWizard Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! If the pockets size was 1.8" width, then nobody would be making a ball on those pockets because they would be smaller than the size of the balls themselves
If 2 balls wouldn't fit in the pocket simultaniously, then it sounds more like they would be about 4" - 4 1/4" pockets , but either way, Riggers is right in what he has said, the main object in 9ball or pretty much any pool game, is to be able to work the snowball without having to use a power stroke, with the speeds of cloth nowadays, they don't need a power shot to get shape unless it's an odd beast of a shot
I know what you'e saying overall, that a player should be able to play that shot freely without a smaller than average pocket being a serious pain in the twin air bags, but it is more of a case of perfecting your stroke or just tightening up your game to adapt to those conditions
I will say this though... if and I mean, IF... The WPC tables or any Matchroom/WPA-sanctioned events are using tables, that are below the specifications requirements that are set by the BCA and enforced by the WPA, then I would like to ask what the heck are they doing using tables, that are not within the specifications, that they have been enforcing on manufacturers and/or tournaments, over the years?
Willie The 1.8 meant 1 ball + .8 of another ball. 2.0 would be 2 balls or 4 1/2". Manufacturers GENERALLY set their tooling up within certain specifications for the home industry, except Diamond has allot of pro cut tables and NO assembly required than legs and leveling. It seems when ever a 3-piece slate table is brought to a large venue, except for Diamond, the pocket hole size and facing angles are tweaked by the installing table mechanic. Who politically goes behind the scenes and convinces this mechanic to set the specs is ???????????????????? Its been going on in tournaments forever. [ This message was edited by: IslandDrive on 2006-12-05 19:08 ]
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navigator
Just can't stay away
Joined: 26-Mar-2006
Posts: 72
From: Newcastle
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Posted: 2006-12-05 20:31
all I can say is the prize money and no of racks per match (especially the final about 18-20)must be increased..... you know about $200,000 - 250,000 tc
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Shooter
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 517
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Posted: 2006-12-05 20:47
On 2006-12-05 20:31 , navigator Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! all I can say is the prize money and no of racks per match (especially the final about 18-20)must be increased..... you know about $200,000 - 250,000 tc So.... When you sponsoring it then? ----------------- 
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