9-Ball
Topic: Info for Players - Self Employment Issues

Hi all.

I am currently in discussion with the Inland Revenue to ascertain whether players on the new GB9 Tour and players on another tour should be registered as self employed or not.

A few players have responded to discussions on another forum (WPC Prize fund) and PM me to say they already are. However, I think the majority of us are not.

The advantages of being self employed pool players is that if a loss after deduction of exepenses is taken into account arises you can offset the loss against other income from PAYE etc. This may then result in a tax refund.

The disadvantages are pretty much the opposite in that tax is due on any profit made. However, I anticipate only a dozen players will make a profit and these are probably already registered as self employed.

Any questions feel free to post or PM me.


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Multiple winner of the Solihull Wednesday knockout competition.

lol, there is now 2 threads with this topic lol

so a player should register as self imployed if they are in a postion of making a profiet!

what if they can make a profiet but not a living should they register as self employed now?

if i register and dont win any prize money in a year and so make a loss do i tell the taxman my expense he then takes that out of my 9-5 job so so im due a tax refund?

could you not do this with ne hobbie?

i honsestly have no idea how tax works all i know is they take a huge bloddy cut at the end of each month from my wages

lol, i think that you cant register as self employed for a hobby it is only seen as if you are a professional, such as playing on a professional pool tour, like GB 9 ball tour.

I dont think that a hobby is really good enough for the taxman

If its a hobby (ie you play a few tournaments a year) then you cannot register. If you play on a tour whereby you are committed to playing certain events (even if you cant make it to some) then its self emplyed income/expenditure.

if you register as self emplyed you have to do a tax return whether or not you make any money. At the end of the day it is everyones intention to make money on the tour.

Imagine if you are a car salesman. Your intention is to make money. if you don't then you report the loss to the taxman and get tax refund.

The best example close to a pool player on a tour is maybe county cricket. Players are professional sportsmen and as such have to declare the income less all travel expenses. Yet many also have other work as there is not enough money to have a living.

You could decide that you want to have 4 jobs all earning £5k per year. Each one individually is not enough to earn money, but together they are a reasonable income. Therefore you declare all of it.

Does this make sense??

At the moment the revenue have not come back with a definite answer as to whether players have to be self employed so its all what ifs.

Players who earn good money from pool such and maybe play in money games and europe and the Worlds etc should be self employed, so why not those of us playing on the tour too is my opinion. I'm on the tour to win an event and make money but if I don't that shouldn't prevent me from claiming back expenses and having a loss to offset against other earnings.

Imagine if over 5 years make losses of £6k over the whole time. Then I win the World Championship. I'm sure the taxman will want his slice of a £50k winning. so only fair to be able to claim tax on the losses previously encountered.

Hope this helps. PM me if any specific concerns you do not wish to air on the forum.

yea this is a very good post, would this just be travel expenses and hotel expenses or also entrance money expenses? must find that out as it is technically an expense

Ads (& everyone) it is all expenses that relate to playing on the tour. Therefore, the t-shirt you buy, cues and accessories, travel, accommodation, certain food and drinks, fees for entry. The only expense I am unsure of at the moment is costs for practicing.

On 2007-11-22 17:44 , chirst147 Wrote:

I normally claim, hotel, flight, airport travel and parking, entry(also helps prove it was prof event, epbf will give u a receipt if u ask). I haven't claimed food and drink because a) I couldn't be arsed, b) I wasn't sure on rules, and c) they might question a large drink bill. (and of course most strip clubs print names of receipts grrrrr )

TheOne - I think alcohol (whether at strip joints or not) is not allowable as you can only claim food and drink which is a necessity. Although i'm sure Bill Werbenuik used to claim his 20 pints during his matches as a necessity.

I'd advise claiming about £4 for a lunch and £10 evening meal unless included with hotel accomm.

I'm giving away free advice now aren't I.!!!!

So if i spend £100 on expenses and win sweet nothing....I can claim £17.50 off my normal job wage back..?

matt123 - it's not quite that simple. You have to do a tax return at the end of the year. You can then work out how much tax you should have paid and deduct the tax actually paid. Then eventually the Inland Revenue will give u a refund.

Not sure where u get £17.50 from though. It would either be 10%, 22% or 40% depending the rate of tax you pay on your earned income.

oh...

I know nothing..

I thought all tax was 17.5%..

VAT is 17.5% but that is a separate issue.

basically. Most people get taxed at the following rates based on your gross income
0% for the first £5225
10% for between £5225 and £7455
22% for between £7455 and £39,825
40% for above £39,825

So as an example if you earned £45,000 gross

the first £5225 you would pay £0 tax
the next £2230 you would pay 10% tax = £223
the next £32,370 you pay 22% tax = £7121.40
anything above that is taxed at 40%. As your still left with £5175 and are taxed at 40%, this would = £2070

Your total tax for the year would be £9414.40

This is the basic way to work it out although self-employed and directors have different methods.

This is an awesome post. Certainly worth considering as my petrol will certainly be huge, train fares etc. It certainly pays to consider this and a good move for everyone, although my boss seems to think I get taxed less than the 22%.

Also worth noting if anyone gets tax credits then this would effect those and might be worth not registering.

thats true, although i think Christ 147 is finding out if we have to register ourselves as self employed

did anybody find out about this, sorry to bring up an old post, it just seemes this question was never resolved

BUMP

This is a good thread guys, especially for future reference for players who may be joining any pro tours in years to come, although I imagine that a majority of them will only be classifying themselves as self employed, but for those who are willing to take that step, it is certainly helpful that this info is up here for that person to help workout tax return forms, and how the self employed scenario works, as reguards the taxman

Willie

so should we register as self employed then? lol