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Toughest table in the country....... |
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PC
Official Pro9 Tipster!
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 780
From: Leeds
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Posted: 2009-05-04 19:16
I'm sat bored waiting for the final session of the snooker and was reading this article on AZB “Pro-Cut” Pockets: Does Tight Make Right? The term “pro-cut pockets” has been floating around for a while now. Hearsay evidence seems to indicate that one pool table manufacturer is being credited for having coined this phrase and that it is meant to describe their own pockets, which many believe to be much tighter than those found on competitive makes. But is that really true?
I did a little research and could not find any actual evidence that the manufacturer in question uses the term “Pro-Cut” in any of their advertising. I could be wrong – I just didn’t find evidence to substantiate that it is their terminology. But this manufacturer does make their pool tables to have tougher pockets. Now notice I said “tougher,” not tighter.
Many pool players are under the misconception that the tighter a pocket is, the tougher it plays. That’s not necessarily so. What really makes the most difference in pocket toughness is the depth of the shelf. To understand what I mean, look at the drawing below. The shelf depth is measured from the pocket opening to the slate drop-off point at the pocket throat. Again looking at the drawing, it should be easily understandable how a ball that “rattles” the pocket has less chance of falling in with a deep shelf than it would with a narrow shelf, therefore the deep shelf would be said to be “tougher.” It might be helpful to point out here that the deepest pocket shelves I’ve found measured 2 inches, and the narrowest measured 3/4 –inch.
The next thing we have to look at is the width of the pocket at its opening as compared to its width at the throat. These two dimensions will determine the particular angle that the sides will take into the pocket. That angle can be measured in degrees starting from where the cushion cloth and the wooden rail come together, and ending at the corner of the pocket opening.
The pocket angle is important because it can either help direct an errant ball into the pocket, or it can help rebound it away from the pocket. Look at the drawing again to see what I mean. See the ball coming down the rail? See the rebound line it will take after it hits the side of the pocket? Now imagine where the ball would go if it was to hit a flat surface instead of one that is angled. Where would it go then? That’s right; it would rebound straight back, not even close to the pocket. But now imagine that the angle is more than the 40-degrees shown. What happens then? It directs the ball’s rebound more inward, toward the pocket.
By now you might be getting a little confused as it’s probably becoming apparent that pockets with wider openings (assumed to be easier) provide smaller angles (assumed to be tougher). But we have to realize that the actual angle achieved will be determined by the width of the pocket opening PLUS the width of the pocket at the throat (end of the slate). This is where tables can differ by quite a bit. Manufacturers that want to cater to the casual player will make their pockets easy to play on by making them with wide openings, wide throats, and narrow shelves. Manufacturers that want to build tables for professional play will make them with narrow openings, narrow throats, and deep shelves.
Now here’s a little formula and guide for rating the pocket toughness on any given table.
OPENING X THROAT ÷ SHELF = RATING
Example:
5.00 in. X 4.25 in. ÷ 1.375 in. = 15.45 rating
Guide:
7 – 11 = Extra Tough (XT)
12 – 16 = Tough (T)
17 – 21 = Easy (E)
22 – 27 = Extra Easy (XE)
I give this range because the toughest non-shimmed professional pockets I found had a rating of 7.59, and the easiest pockets I found were on bar tables that had a rating of 27.00.
By
Roger Long (Advanced Certified Instructor)
Glendale, ArizonaI was wondering if we could try and find the tightest table in the UK (ok from what i hear the match table at Barnsley will win) on this formula and maybe see if there is any regional differences. -----------------  [ This message was edited by: BigDave on 2009-05-04 22:17 ]
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Riggers
Home away from home
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 4454
From: Barnsley (centre of the universe)
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Posted: 2009-05-04 19:28
I thionk Daz has played on the most notorious tables in the UK and many in America and his view is Barnsley is the tightest he's ever played. But that will change soo when GB9 will have one of the shims removed as we did not feel it fair or suitable for a GB9 event. It will still however have one shim and be used for the Pro and Main event finals. With new Z9 cloth I expect it will play very fairly.
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PC
Official Pro9 Tipster!
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 780
From: Leeds
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Posted: 2009-05-04 19:31
Hi Riggers, One of the tables in Leeds is single shimmed and z9 i feel it plays perfect the pockets are very fair, just makes you aim, and stops small children from falling into the pockets  ----------------- [ This message was edited by: PC on 2009-05-04 19:31 ]
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laz1957
Just can't stay away
Joined: 27-Jun-2007
Posts: 117
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Posted: 2009-05-05 18:13
With the demise of Rileys in St Albans I have moved the 32 player league to the Hurricane Room. They very kindly recushioned and recovered all 8 American tables for us, one of which has shimmed pockets and a cloth supplied by one of the players. I guess I better get the tape measure out  Also, our cloth is VERY slick and this also makes a big difference. Is there any accepted way to measure cloth speed?
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cueman
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1423
From: Coventry
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Posted: 2009-05-05 18:29
On 2009-05-05 18:13 , laz1957 Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! With the demise of Rileys in St Albans I have moved the 32 player league to the Hurricane Room. They very kindly recushioned and recovered all 8 American tables for us, one of which has shimmed pockets and a cloth supplied by one of the players. I guess I better get the tape measure out
Also, our cloth is VERY slick and this also makes a big difference. Is there any accepted way to measure cloth speed? I think Big Dave will have some input on cloth speed, he was telling me in Croydon that he has been working on divising a scale to act as a comparison guide. Dave? -----------------  Andy Warden, GB9 - Authorised Pro9 forum advertiser/sponsor √
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thediamond
Home away from home
Joined: 13-Mar-2006
Posts: 1520
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Posted: 2009-05-05 19:19
On 2009-05-05 18:13 , laz1957 Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! With the demise of Rileys in St Albans I have moved the 32 player league to the Hurricane Room. They very kindly recushioned and recovered all 8 American tables for us, one of which has shimmed pockets and a cloth supplied by one of the players. I guess I better get the tape measure out
Also, our cloth is VERY slick and this also makes a big difference. Is there any accepted way to measure cloth speed? Place your cue ball (or indeed any ball) on the cushion at the head (or foot) of the table. Allow it to drop naturally onto the cloth by simply lifting your finger off the ball as it balances on the edge of the cushion. If it travels to the: 3rd diamond or middle pocket: Fast cloth 2nd diamond: medium speed cloth 1st diamond or below: slow cloth. Great method for testing cloth speed before playing a match. Si
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The-Omen
Home away from home
Joined: 10-Nov-2008
Posts: 165
From: Bournemouth
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Posted: 2009-05-05 19:56
Very good tip that Si, I have just put your theory to the test on my table at both ends and the results are what I expected with regards to my cloth, Whats your answer to finding a dead cushion then? Loss of that rack I suppose! 
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Darkside
Home away from home
Joined: 06-Jul-2006
Posts: 668
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Posted: 2009-05-05 21:55
Post deleted by admin: ***sigh*** Darkside..........Down like a Bufalow...lol [ This message was edited by: BigDave on 2009-05-06 12:09 ]
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InsideEnglish
Home away from home
Joined: 05-Nov-2008
Posts: 421
From: Cloud Cuckoo Land
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Posted: 2009-05-06 01:04
Buffalo  [ This message was edited by: InsideEnglish on 2009-05-06 01:05 ]
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Danny
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 909
From: Manchester UK
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Posted: 2009-05-06 12:11
that's what she said.
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RACKRUNNER21
Home away from home
Joined: 19-Sep-2006
Posts: 862
From: Bristol
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Posted: 2009-05-11 09:18
Our shimmed table in Rileys Yate comes to 10.5 so very tough but it does have 4.1 inch pockets and they spit em out if your a millimeter out Anyone else measure the pockets or was is just me? [ This message was edited by: RACKRUNNER21 on 2009-05-11 09:50 ]
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Snapool
Home away from home
Joined: 09-Aug-2008
Posts: 341
From: High Wycombe
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Posted: 2009-05-11 12:56
I just messured my pockets and they are smaller than the balls.
No wonder I cant pot anything.
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RACKRUNNER21
Home away from home
Joined: 19-Sep-2006
Posts: 862
From: Bristol
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Posted: 2009-05-11 14:55
On 2009-05-11 12:56 , Snapool Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! I just messured my pockets and they are smaller than the balls.
No wonder I cant pot anything. you mean smaller than 2 balls together? coz if its smaller than one ball then all i can say is good luck..lol
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