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The Maharaja Speaks |
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the_locomotive
Home away from home
Joined: 26-Aug-2006
Posts: 278
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Posted: 2008-07-17 00:28
After re-reading my post I was maybe a bit harsh and am Sorry for offending you Imran.. I did not mean to and have taken everything you said on board.. I believe that players can be concentrating a lot on the match and a dry break may slip by both players!! The cut break you use can be prone to being dry but that is your choice!! If it was non tapped tables and hit the break hard then this thread would not have happened.
Its unfortunate that you're the player that everyone is using to put their point across, but being one of the best players in the UK your matches are watched alot by people and maybe your dry breaks are noticed more.. In my post I was trying to make more of a point about changing the break format not trying to call you a cheat!!
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bangladesh
Just can't stay away
Joined: 30-Jun-2007
Posts: 107
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Posted: 2008-07-17 00:36
nice one loco
imran is what you said but it is unfortunate to say that he has that reputation. hopefully it will change to being a winner and nothing else.
makes me think that i was harsh in putting that link up and i am sorry for that but thought it was needed before people makes out that imran is a saint on the table
just my thoughts
XXX
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chirst147
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Aug-2006
Posts: 630
From: Birmingham
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Posted: 2008-07-17 01:42
At the end of the day I am sure there are players who dry break and don't realise and there are some players that dry break, realise but play on because the opponent hasn't realised. The rules are there in black and white so everyone should adhere to them. I have broken a number of times where i have potted a ball but not managed to do the 3 point rule and have handed the table over, and I have also called a couple of opponents on it when they have not realised, but then I am relatively new to the game and therefore have not been used to one rule over another. If a player dry breaks and realises but continues then it is up to his conscious to carry on. If he/she carrys on and wins a rack or match with the knowledge that he/she did this then he/she has to live with himself/herself. i couldn't do it as I would know deep down what i did was wrong. I am sure there are players who play a win at all costs attitude and this goes for sharking too. I am not a good enough player (yet) to be competing and beating the top names but I have been warned of a number of players with a number of tactics they use. I have also watched Pro Tube/You Tube and cue Sport TV and seen a number of players using tactics to there advantage (one of which was to stop the white ball after a foul before it careered into other balls). i'm not going to mention any names as it is not my place to say, but the players themselves know whether they cheat. as long as you can live with yourself that is all that matters because as this thread and the other thread shows that when you cheat (and I'm not saying in this instance that Imran has) other players will be watching and your name becomes mud for a while. if anything these threads should deter anyone else from using sharking or dishonest tactics to win games as I am sure Imran will testify it is not a nice feeling to have your name dragged through the mud, especially when you have just won 4 consecutive events. I am sure both Lee and Shir will take these points on board and use them to make changes to the subsequent tours. This is a new tour and obviously has a few teething troubles, but on the whole has been excellent. To make this tour continue to succeed all players need to get behind each other and work together to promote the tour. Outside sponsors will not invest in a tour where the word cheat is banded about all over the place, and for this tour to grow sponsors are needed. imagine if a top bank/insurance company etc wanted to sponsor the tour but was put off by players calling each other a cheat. This would certainly dent the tours ability to move forward. Just my thoughts on this matter as a player. ----------------- Multiple winner of the Solihull Wednesday knockout competition. [ This message was edited by: chirst147 on 2008-07-17 01:43 ]
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malaguista
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1176
From: Spain
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Posted: 2008-07-17 07:56
I was not present at the tournament so didn't see what happened but to call any player a cheat in public without supporting eveidence is a very serious matter. It is no good looking at video evidence after the event because all that would show is that no balls were potted on the break. It does not show that Imran knew this and deliberately carried on shooting. Whoever first publicly called the Maharaja a cheat should pay attention to what is going on in the Philippines at the moment. Alex Pagulayan has filed a libel suit against the Billiards and Snookers Congress of the Philippines, who accused him of sharking in the Singapore leg of the Guinness Tour. This has not been proven and it is doubtful if it could be in my opinion. Alex is claiming 6,000,000 pesos in damages. Now back to the issue. WPA Rules: 6. Fouls If a foul is not called before the next shot begins, the foul is assumed not to have happened.
Therefore if it didn't happen, there is no basis for labelling Imran as a cheat. WPA Regulations 5. Playing with an “Area” Referee This regulation refers to tournaments where there are no referees or where there are only roaming referees. The non-shooting player will perform all of the duties of the referee. I assume that the opponent didn't call a foul in this instance. If a dispute arises between two players in an unrefereed match, and the area referee is asked to make a decision without having seen the cause of the dispute, he should be careful to understand the situation as completely as possible. This might include asking trusted witnesses, reviewing video tapes, or reenacting the shot. If the area referee is asked to determine whether a foul occurred and there is no evidence of the foul except the claim of one player while the other player claims that there was no foul, then it is assumed that no foul occurred.[ This message was edited by: malaguista on 2008-07-17 07:58 ]
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chirst147
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Aug-2006
Posts: 630
From: Birmingham
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Posted: 2008-07-17 08:56
On 2008-07-17 07:56 , malaguista Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! I was not present at the tournament so didn't see what happened but to call any player a cheat in public without supporting eveidence is a very serious matter.
It is no good looking at video evidence after the event because all that would show is that no balls were potted on the break. It does not show that Imran knew this and deliberately carried on shooting.
Whoever first publicly called the Maharaja a cheat should pay attention to what is going on in the Philippines at the moment.
Alex Pagulayan has filed a libel suit against the Billiards and Snookers Congress of the Philippines, who accused him of sharking in the Singapore leg of the Guinness Tour.
This has not been proven and it is doubtful if it could be in my opinion.
Alex is claiming 6,000,000 pesos in damages.
Now back to the issue.
WPA Rules:
6. Fouls
If a foul is not called before the next shot begins, the foul is assumed not to have happened.
Therefore if it didn't happen, there is no basis for labelling Imran as a cheat.
WPA Regulations
5. Playing with an “Area” Referee
This regulation refers to tournaments where there are no referees or where there are only roaming referees.
The non-shooting player will perform all of the duties of the referee.
I assume that the opponent didn't call a foul in this instance.
If a dispute arises between two players in an unrefereed match, and the area referee is asked to make a decision without having seen the cause of the dispute, he should be careful to understand the situation as completely as possible. This might include asking trusted witnesses, reviewing video tapes, or reenacting the shot.
If the area referee is asked to determine whether a foul occurred and there is no evidence of the foul except the claim of one player while the other player claims that there was no foul, then it is assumed that no foul occurred. With respect to rule 6 about the foul not happening if not called. This is all well and good but if the shooting player knows a foul was committed but carrys on because his opponent doesn't notice then this is very un sportsman like. In all sports players have a duty to play with integrity, hoinesty and sportsmanship and in pool this includes calling fouls on yourself if they go un noticed. If players did not call fouls on themselves then matches would become farcical. Again I am not accusing Imran of doing this. ----------------- Multiple winner of the Solihull Wednesday knockout competition.
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Pool-Ace
Home away from home
Joined: 04-May-2006
Posts: 174
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Posted: 2008-07-17 09:32
Great post Imran.
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MachineGun
Home away from home
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 518
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Posted: 2008-07-17 09:38
Well put, some good points there
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Monkey-Boy
Just can't stay away
Joined: 14-Jul-2008
Posts: 91
From: Darlington
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Posted: 2008-07-17 09:40
it will be interesting to see if Daryl will reply to this thread???
im not even going to host my opinion on the whole situation...as if i do it might upset one party, and please another...and vise versa...so il keep it to myself.
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Riggers
Home away from home
Joined: 30-Mar-2006
Posts: 4454
From: Barnsley (centre of the universe)
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Posted: 2008-07-17 09:52
I'm in a bad way at the moment, off work, so only a few words from me with Shir typing for me... 1. I hate to see the word cheat used because it is very serious indeed and completely agree with Peter's point above. If we had any proof of cheating the players involved would be in very serious trouble indeed but there is no proof whatsoever and no justification for publicly calling any GB9 player a cheat. 2. The GB9 committee (not me alone) will consider all these views and decide what to do next about the break rule. 3. We will have a referee from the Mansfield event on 21 September. We may have to increase annual fees by £10 per player to pay for this but at less than £2 per event it's worth it in my opinion. Finally, I guess I'm disappointed about many of these posts in public as it does give the impression (false in my opinion) that the tour, as Craig said has some 'teething troubles'. I think that is very unfair after 4 very succssful events which have run very smoothly. At each event we have delivered on everything from start to finish. If the players cannot interpret the rules properly or accept them when things don't go their way that's their problem. We'll listen to views and make a considered opinion but like I said earlier we will not be impulsive and will not react to a minority (albeit very vocal at times) opinion. [ This message was edited by: Riggers on 2008-07-17 09:52 ]
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toomuchaMaverick
Home away from home
Joined: 23-Apr-2007
Posts: 313
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Posted: 2008-07-17 10:16
That is very logical and fair Riggers, I wish you a speedy recovery from whatever has struck you down, and hope you bounce back to full fitness as soon as possible.
I am not a member of the tour as of yet, but I know how high a regard you and Shir are held in by the whole of the UK9-Ball scene (and beyond), and what you have both done is, in a word, fantastic. the old addage of not being able to please all the people all of the time applies, but at the end of the day, this is all a big learning curve for everyone.
Unfortunately a bit of a dark few days, with some of the leading lights of the UK scene (and people who I, and am sure others look up to) engaged in less than pleasant conversation which I am sure is being put to bed, but when we all look back a few years down the line on a European/world leading tour, I think it will be realised nothing worth having comes without negative experience.
Fair play to Imran for coming out and explaining, when he did not have to. And also fair play on everyone for being honest. I think it is agreed that there is no room for dishonesty anywhere in this, or indeed any other walk of life. We are fortunate enough to not only be able to see these players in action/play against them, but they are also down to earth enough to offer advice/assistance/opinion on a whole range of subjects. I cannot think of any other sport where this is possible, and I have to say it is a privelage to be able to do so.
I don't know many of you in real life, so cannot possibly comment, but the very large majority of you seem like really nice people who are a benefit to the tour, and those who I have met, (Imran, Daryl, Big Dave, and a fair few others) also appear to be great people who I hope to chat with again.
Whatever outcome is decided by the GB9 team, will be in the interest of everyone, and should I be fortunate enough to qualify for next year, then I will be safe in the knowledge that I am entering something that is only going to go from strength to strength. But I digress, I am but a solitary voice of an incredibly amateur player, but in the midst of all this, I think taking a step back, a deep breath, and then evaluating where we go is the best possible way of not only moving on, but moving up.
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MachineGun
Home away from home
Joined: 21-Aug-2007
Posts: 518
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Posted: 2008-07-17 10:57
Lee, from reading some of the posts, I don't think the impression is given that the tour has teething troubles.
The main problem is that players have issues with other players and their sportsmanship. Like the break rule, the issue doesn't seem to be the rule itself but how some people are treating it.
I don't agree with people calling Imran a cheat, especially not when he's cleared things up with that post. I don't even agree with some of my comments about Neil now that he's also cleared things up.
Besides, if it decided that rules do need to be changed then this doesn't reflect on the tour. Like you said, there have been 4 very successful events and you need to remember this is the GB9's first year!
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expertfluke
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 749
From: Hertfordshire
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Posted: 2008-07-17 11:24
It's good that Imran has explained his side of the story. Imran has done an amazing thing in winning 4 comps in a row. lets remember its the issue of Dry breaks and sportsmanship that we are talking about. Imran's error in the final was just an example. Also as he's winning everything maybe some people were a little eager to note the dry break issue. But I think its good to know most of us have good morals and aim to play the game in an honest and respectful way. Its a blip and a warning, the Pro9 massive are watching!!  [ This message was edited by: expertfluke on 2008-07-17 11:28 ]
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chirst147
Home away from home
Joined: 28-Aug-2006
Posts: 630
From: Birmingham
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Posted: 2008-07-17 12:41
On 2008-07-17 09:52 , Riggers Wrote:!!! QUOTE !!! I'm in a bad way at the moment, off work, so only a few words from me with Shir typing for me...
1. I hate to see the word cheat used because it is very serious indeed and completely agree with Peter's point above. If we had any proof of cheating the players involved would be in very serious trouble indeed but there is no proof whatsoever and no justification for publicly calling any GB9 player a cheat.
2. The GB9 committee (not me alone) will consider all these views and decide what to do next about the break rule.
3. We will have a referee from the Mansfield event on 21 September. We may have to increase annual fees by £10 per player to pay for this but at less than £2 per event it's worth it in my opinion.
Finally, I guess I'm disappointed about many of these posts in public as it does give the impression (false in my opinion) that the tour, as Craig said has some 'teething troubles'. I think that is very unfair after 4 very succssful events which have run very smoothly. At each event we have delivered on everything from start to finish. If the players cannot interpret the rules properly or accept them when things don't go their way that's their problem.
We'll listen to views and make a considered opinion but like I said earlier we will not be impulsive and will not react to a minority (albeit very vocal at times) opinion.
Lee and everyone, I would like to apologise for my post saying the tour has teething troubles. It was not meant in any way to infer that the tour has had major problems or hasn't been a success at all. I think (apart from the fact I haven't won a single match yet!!!) that the tour has been run excellently and all players have enjoyed each tour stop (with possible exception of Wealdstone aka Beiruit riots lol). I for one think what Lee and Shir have done as well as the other committee members to get this tour up and running has been nothing short of brilliant. My comment regarding teething troubles was not aimed at the break rule or any other aspect of the tour. Perhaps a better expression would be to say the first year is a learning curve and that not everything can be done right first time. Also you cannot please all players all the time. Take for instance the change to rule after having a dry break for Tour stop 4 - this was probably suggested to Lee and then voted on and implemented. It seems to me that the break rule is one that could carry on indefinitely as everyone has different opinions about it. I have spoken to and e-mailed Lee with suggestions on other matters as I am sure others have and some comments may be accepted and discussed with the committee and others wont. i'm sure the World Snooker Tour as well as the EPBF and old BPPPA have all had rule changes and tour structure amendments along the way which has only served to enhance and improve things. Therefore well done to everyone involved and keep up the good work. Even if I don't qualify for next year by rights or through qualifiers i will continue to support the tour and be actively involved in seeking sponsorship for future events. I have this long and protracted explanation will suffice as an apology from me. Regards Craig ----------------- Multiple winner of the Solihull Wednesday knockout competition.
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dazzler
Home away from home
Joined: 14-Mar-2006
Posts: 1289
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Posted: 2008-07-17 15:29
This is the last time i will post enything regarding this subject. I had a lengthy chat with Karl today, and we agree that the break rule needs to be changed....i know that the board of GB9 are looking into this seriously and i am sure Lee will inform everyone if there are to be changes or not. Right, back to the Open at Birkdale! ----------------- 
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striker
Home away from home
Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Posts: 431
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Posted: 2008-07-17 17:46
well done imran on winning 4 main events on the trot,it wont be done again.shame that certain players have labelled you a cheat for this dry break malarchy,if i were you i wouldnt give a flying one about it,suppose a lot of jealousy is creeping in from certain players.top player in the uk so your bound to get shot at one way or another,well done again
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tonyponty
Home away from home
Joined: 15-Apr-2008
Posts: 2264
From: yorkshire
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Posted: 2008-07-17 19:18
it gets better the mind boggles..lol
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pooliscool
Home away from home
Joined: 17-Jun-2008
Posts: 293
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Posted: 2008-07-18 11:17
Hey Imran I hope you see this as you are somewhat of an idol to me and I only dream of being able to play to an eighth of your ability. For me, you are playing the game on a different dimension and level (this is proved by mastering the break) to all other players. That includes your "friend" raj and definatley better than Peach. Now before I get angry responses about this coz he's the WC, just what would the answer be from Daryl if Imran asked him for money match, exactly, nuff said. Even if he does cheat, I say good on him, if the other player does not pull him up on it, who's fault is that. As i heard Imran once say "do anything to win" and that is what I believe he is doing. Winning! A lot of people seem to have sour grapes, its the same whenever someone shows dominance in their sport. Look at Schumacher (the good one!) everyone accused him of cheating and unsportsmanlike behaviour just coz he was so dominant, what's he supposed to do? Roll over and let everyone else beat him, I think not! Roll on Manchester, and do me proud imran and make it 5 in a row!! Go on my son!! Thanks [ This message was edited by: pooliscool on 2008-07-18 11:19 ]
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Ads
Home away from home
Joined: 07-Sep-2007
Posts: 1894
From: Essex, England
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Posted: 2008-07-18 11:27
Pooliscool
I see your point on Imran being the best player in the UK at the moment, but to say that it would be a good thing if he was to cheat to get there completely undermines his ability. No player should have to cheat to win and Imran Majid certainly does not have to cheat to win, as he has all the ability and has proved it with his 4 tour stop wins.
People who think like you and say that it is good that cheats are using their initiative are ruining our sport and sending any possible sponser running a mile as they want to sponsor a tour that is seen to be fair and just, and not just full of cheats and sharks.
To be honest, i watched the Imran video yesterday and i dont believe that he did notice that it was a dry break.
I think that saying if he is cheating, then good on him is a stupid thing to say, and i'm sure that he'd agree
Well done for your recent performances Imran, see you in Manchester
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bangladesh
Just can't stay away
Joined: 30-Jun-2007
Posts: 107
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Posted: 2008-07-18 11:59
I believe that Daryl doesnt play anyone for money? Whether it is a nobody like me or a player like Imaran. Correct me if I am wrong I'll take the 3 ball Dazzler!! 
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bangladesh
Just can't stay away
Joined: 30-Jun-2007
Posts: 107
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Posted: 2008-07-18 12:00
I meant Imran not Imaran
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